Senior Management To Implement New Travel NON-Rev Policy

[ClueByFour]

Then you make the argument for Execs to fly FCFS as well space available. Execs are commuters as well and don't deserve any special treatment. I am sure there are thousands of airline Execs that would take their places without hesitation.

Insofar as PB and I disagree on things (more often than not), PB is absolutely correct in this regard. Anyone who came from east should not have space positive travel. If Parker and the sandcastle folks gave it to them for a "superior talent level" in their employment contracts, I can only conclude it's more of the airline groupthink--in my industry, tanking a company into bankruptcy twice would be a blackball pretty much for life.

Moreover, history has shown that good leaders lead by example. Part of the biggest disconnection that exists today with all occupants of the Sandcastle (whether they came from east or west originally) is that they don't eat the "dog stuff" that either their customers or employees do.

Whichever direction tempe goes with the non-rev thing, it would be useful if Parker instituted the same program for the execs. That way, they'd get a load of their own dog stuff more often and perhaps just unite the employees who might otherwise go down swinging at each other regardless of how the decision comes down on boarding priority.

As always, I know nothing about running LCC--my company posts a billion in profits a year, thus I cannot really relate.

 

[Elevation]

Someone list all the major airlines with FCFS or senority base. Then we will decide on which group we want to be like.

 

[IpourNotCan]

Someone list all the major airlines with FCFS or senority base. Then we will decide on which group we want to be like.

American - First come, first serve
Southwest - first come, first serve
America West - first come, first serve
Delta - First come, first serve
United - ?
Northwest - seniority
US airways - seniority


If the company wants to get rid of those old bags, change it to first come, first serve!

 

[Travelpro72]

So many of us are resistant to change. Many changes are on the way for all employees of this new company. Not all employees will be happy with the changes made but where is the happy medium? Being from the east I have only known seniority and can say that I don't always agree with it. You get bumped at the last minute. I have also been on the flipside of that scenario and bumped. We tend to understand here. I don't feel it is right though. Ok, working in a bank before being employed here I got better positions,cubical verse office, lunch/break times. We were given these things due to our seniority. That also included vacation time and things like that. Now the bank offered the employees a restaurant on the 24th floor. My seniority didn't give me the ability to cut in line at the salad bar or to bump to cash out at the register. I can see why some would not be pleased with this seniority issue on non rev travel. Travel being a perk given not entitled to us by the company should be a level playing field for all. Now I must ask, what does a f/a working a flight from europe and not being able to list have to do with Susie Snowflake and her kids going on vacation that she has had planned for 6 months? When that f/a has landed and is off the clock he or she just goes to the gate and bumps, bumps, bumps? NOT RIGHT and I'm from the east. Why should the other nonrev suffer? So someone is gonna be ticked off with the outcome here. DOH is fine for work related issues. Nonreving is not one of them. OH yeah, as for a choice to commute....should everyone with a spouse have them quit their jobs also? Only to move to that base and possibly get displaced from there? Yeah we knew displacements could happen in our career but not with a $12,000.00 a year paycut. NOBODY could have ever imagined sitting in that open session that the job would be where it is today. It is very insensitive to have that stance against commuters.

 

[JAFA]

United - ?

United uses Seniority

 

[tokerboy]

Insofar as PB and I disagree on things (more often than not), PB is absolutely correct in this regard. Anyone who came from east should not have space positive travel. If Parker and the sandcastle folks gave it to them for a "superior talent level" in their employment contracts, I can only conclude it's more of the airline groupthink--in my industry, tanking a company into bankruptcy twice would be a blackball pretty much for life.

Moreover, history has shown that good leaders lead by example. Part of the biggest disconnection that exists today with all occupants of the Sandcastle (whether they came from east or west originally) is that they don't eat the "dog stuff" that either their customers or employees do

.

Whichever direction tempe goes with the non-rev thing, it would be useful if Parker instituted the same program for the execs. That way, they'd get a load of their own dog stuff more often and perhaps just unite the employees who might otherwise go down swinging at each other regardless of how the decision comes down on boarding priority.

As always, I know nothing about running LCC--my company posts a billion in profits a year, thus I cannot really relate.

Just adding my 2 sense . That about wraps this topic up in a nutshell. Parker has done nothing(leading by example) to prove to me that he really wants to melt the two corporate cultures peacefully.

 

[TheNewLowFare]

If it's going to be seniority, there has to be a "CUT OFF" time. I don't think someone more senior should bump anyone that has been rolled over 2 or 3 times from previous flights. I certainly would hate for someone more senior to bump me if that person just walks up to the counter 30 minutes before flight when I have been waiting 2-3 hours at the airport.

I would like to see a "CUT OFF" time and that would be at least 1 hour before departure. That way, I can have an idea if I'm going to get on or not and can make other alternative trips.
If the flight is full and a more senior f/a walks up to the counter and ther's only 1 seat. I can pretty much guarantee, I won't get a seat and can run up to the Southwest gate instead. A person who also who have been rolled over from previous flights should also have priority. This is the only fair way to do it! A blending of both flight benefits.

 

[Doc]

Hmmm, East won't touch that one with a ten foot pole. But then again, I suppose NOBODY commutes to base at these airlines. Nor does anyone acknowledge that we have tons of commuters at HP as well....and I am not referring to commuting from Mesa to Sky Harbor either. The only two major airlines I have worked for have been AA and HP, so I have only known FCFS boarding priorities and it has always been a fair system.

AA, btw, has more bases than US, crosses over more time zones than US, has more employees (of all seniority levels) than US, etc. They seem to manage. So can US East.

I was married to one of those airlines who use FCFS and they manage but most don't like it you can be sure of that.

 

[TheNewLowFare]

I was married to one of those airlines who use FCFS and they manage but most don't like it you can be sure of that.

Then there's SHOULD be a "CUT OFF" time, so other non-revs can make alternative plans instead of beeing bumped over and over again.

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

OH yeah, as for a choice to commute....should everyone with a spouse have them quit their jobs also? Only to move to that base and possibly get displaced from there? Yeah we knew displacements could happen in our career but not with a $12,000.00 a year paycut. NOBODY could have ever imagined sitting in that open session that the job would be where it is today. It is very insensitive to have that stance against commuters.

First I think with should clear up what we mean by "base" I would rather use the term "base/station". As using base sounds like this is solely a F/A Pilot issue and they are the only ones that had to make a choice to commute or not and that is simply not true.

The first part of your post makes perfect sense to me but I can't understand how you can do a complete flip-flop and make this statement in regards to commuters. You quote "$12,000" per year pay cuts. Are you talking about just one group? Should we give these privileges you ask for to just one group? You said that "NOBODY" could have known and you are right about that. But it did happen and it affected EVERYONE in some way or other. Some had to make a "personal" choice to move or commute based on their own circumstances. The ones that had to make a decision were not forced to make the choice that they ended up making (or may have to make again. I just don't understand how you think its ok to give certain groups or commuters special treatment because of the choices they made. As an example I revisit your earlier thought with a slight change. What does a employee getting off work and wanting to commute home have to do with Susie Snowflake and her kids going on vacation that she has had planned for 6 months? When that employee is off the clock he or she just goes to the gate and goes to the top of the list? NOT RIGHT. Why should the other nonrev suffer because someone else decided to be a commuter? One other thing that I might have missed talked about is how would you administer and prevent abuse by commuters God forbid they were given special treatment.

Again the point about anyone not being able to list on a FCFS basis is just a copout unless you have no family, friends, co-workers.

 

[Bluesky]

Not sure where IpourNotCan gets his info but needs a new source.

Delta uses seniority also, but has provisions for some limited higher grade passes which can be used,(still seniority based on class of pass,) retiress have a lower status than current employees, still seniority prevails. All in all a fair system, but slightly more complicated with different categories.

 

[PITbull]

First I think with should clear up what we mean by "base" I would rather use the term "base/station". As using base sounds like this is solely a F/A Pilot issue and they are the only ones that had to make a choice to commute or not and that is simply not true.

The first part of your post makes perfect sense to me but I can't understand how you can do a complete flip-flop and make this statement in regards to commuters. You quote "$12,000" per year pay cuts. Are you talking about just one group? Should we give these privileges you ask for to just one group? You said that "NOBODY" could have known and you are right about that. But it did happen and it affected EVERYONE in some way or other. Some had to make a "personal" choice to move or commute based on their own circumstances. The ones that had to make a decision were not forced to make the choice that they ended up making (or may have to make again. I just don't understand how you think its ok to give certain groups or commuters special treatment because of the choices they made. As an example I revisit your earlier thought with a slight change. What does a employee getting off work and wanting to commute home have to do with Susie Snowflake and her kids going on vacation that she has had planned for 6 months? When that employee is off the clock he or she just goes to the gate and goes to the top of the list? NOT RIGHT. Why should the other nonrev suffer because someone else decided to be a commuter? One other thing that I might have missed talked about is how would you administer and prevent abuse by commuters God forbid they were given special treatment.

Again the point about anyone not being able to list on a FCFS basis is just a copout unless you have no family, friends, co-workers.

OK Charlie, Those employees who have taken a paycut from $12,000 to 50,000 per year. This includes agents, f/as, pilots, mechanics. Management on the other end of the spectrum, added to their pay anywhere from $12,000 and up into the hundreds of thousands and they receive space positive whenever they fly along with their families. NO FCFS scenario for them.

 

[etops1]

i think it's going to be fcfs for the simple reason that useast employees are not that computer savy. all they do b#tch and moan about seniority vs fcfs. you have to go onto [email protected] and express your opinion period. that is the only way this will be resolved. alot of our east employees ( i am speaking about the f/a group) don't even know how to etb let alone log onn to the hub. get educated and know how to voice your opinion. if you want fcfs . them let them know via the e-mail address. otherwise bitchhing about it and not doing anything about it is gonna get us no where.

 

[700UW]

US East people are not computer savy?

I will tell you every ramper, gate agent, ticket, agent, reservations agent, mechanic and utility use computers everyday in their workplace.

I think you need to rethink your statement.

Your statement is ignorant and incorrect.

 

[openview]

Management on the other end of the spectrum, added to their pay anywhere from $12,000 and up into the hundreds of thousands and they receive space positive whenever they fly along with their families. NO FCFS scenario for them.

Excuse me but I was in mgmt and took pay cuts every time that labor did. So did every person I worked with. Then mine and hundreds other management positions were cut regardless of performance or skill in every department. That is what happens to at will employees during difficult times in a corporation. No voluntary leaves, no bumping, no layoffs ...

I could fly space pos traveling for Business only and nothing else including commuting relevant to this topic.

The top execs and their pay or perks don't represent the other 98% of management or the company. But it does make for a great union rhetoric sound bite.