Seniority Integration

[PITbull]

I guess when that facts aren't on your side, it's best to bludgeon the poster and declare this board only for US employees.  How pathetic!

Call it what you want, but HP shareholders will get about 40% of the new shares and US creditors (US shareholders get 0) about 12%.  Sounds like an HP takeover with outside investors to me.  What I can't understand is why these fact so threaten US employees.  Frankly, HP shareholders are helping US out of bankruptcy at some risk to their own investment -- I would think that the US folks would be happy about such a takeover.

[post="276530"][/post]​

Sorry Tech,

Its anything BUT a take over. HP was going to be in some serious cash crunch by end of year without a merger. They would have either had to restructure inside or outside of BK, but cash was a problem.

I don't know if your managment keeps you informed or not, but you guys had to "dance" with someone, otherwise you'd be walking into BK.

So don't full yourself.

The money is coming from outside investors that like the idea of the Barbell concept and USAirways labor cost structure that's pretty damn low for a legacy.

 

[TechBoy]

Sorry Tech,

It anything BUT a take over. HP was going to be in some serious cash crunch by end of year without a merger. They would have either had to restructure inside or outside of BK, but cash was a problem.

I don't know if your managment keeps you informed or not, but you guys had to "dance" with someone, otherwise you'd be walking into BK.

So don't full yourself.

The money is coming from outside investors that like the idea of the Barbell concept and USAirways labor cost structure that's pretty damn low for a legacy.

[post="276645"][/post]​

You shouldn't be so defensive Pitbull. What makes you think that I work for HP (or any airline for that matter). Don't now and never have.

Just follow the money (or equity in this case). If you come to a different conclusion then you are entitled to your opinion, but I don't think that many independent observers would agree with you.

HP may have been in trouble, but U was close to comatose. I hope the combined carrier makes it, but it's not going to be easy. If all the synergies come through, then I think it will work, but very few acquisitions produce the advertised savings.

 

[firstamendment]

We here at HP looking for answers to the same questions that I have read on this board. The biggest would ofcourse be the seniority issue. As you can imagine not many here at HP think the date of hire would be very fair. We do hear the rumors that our #1 pilot and #1 f/a would be at the bottom of your seniority lists. If this is followed by letter that would mean that a large number of HP pilots and f/a would loose their jobs when the deal is done. Does anyone think this is fair? I know I don't.

What I would like to see is the separate domiciles kept in tact and anyone in the "new company" who wants to transfer to a different domicile may do so only if a spot is open. When they transfer one of two things should happen:
1. They take with them all seniority and they get placed where they should with
that seniority.

or

2. Use a weighted average when integrating the seniority lists of the two airlines.
The high seniority people at HP are just as important as the high seniority
people at US. This would give everyone credit for the hard work they have
put in at each of their separate companies.

After all, this is a merger not a buy. That hard work of one group can not be down played over the hard work of another. Both must be treated as equal as possible.

Unfortunately there is no hard fast rule for some of this and time will tell all.

[post="276543"][/post]​

First of all, hello, and welcome to our board. Before I go on, I want you to know that there are alot of troublemakers who, for what ever reAAson, like to throw their venom around. Most are from other airlines, so be aware.

Secondly, I have been painted in a bad light because I speak the truth.

I have heard SOOO much BS about how the top AWA F/A at AWA is sooo junior they will be at the bottom of the list. This is CRAP!! We have f/a's flying with a 99 senority. Unless all your "senior" people have retired, this is bogus.
Friend, I am 100000% for DOH. Not because I stand to gain, but because DOH has been the way through three US Airways mergers. It is dangerous to go against a bylaw when we feel it screws us. The same bylaw YOU feel may screw you screwed me when the Eastern/Trump Shuttle f/as got their EAL senority, knocking me down another 200-300 numbers. Now one could argue that is little, but where do you draw the line? Should the Piedmont, PSA, and Shuttle f/as forego their integrated senority because you guys so happen to be more junior? I can here it now...I am arrogant...WRONG!!! BUT those ARE the bylaws. If this is to be changed, it will be done AFTER we are merged. UAL had a FIT about that bylaw and while they will lie out their teeth about this issue, they sabbatoged that merger and are trying to get rid od AFA mainly because of the DOH isuue, even though they will TELL you it wasn't. And don't forget, ALL that clout and they feel they got NO attention? THEY spirheaded the DOH over at UAL. Well 2-3years has gone by and they STILL haven't decertifyed AFA. Personally, I feel DOH should only be with carriers that are ALREADY AFA. But any effort to decertify AFA on this bylaw is immature and at this point, mute. Sorry, it's reality. Go ahead, trouble makers, throw your daggers. I could give a damn.

So you see, this is an issue for the future. You can not start the slotting thing as there is NOT a judge out there that will break the AFA bylaws. THAT is why we at US didn't fight the EAL/Trump senority.

I feel you need to REALLY listen to what is truthfully said here at US. In 2-5 years when we merge and fences are brought down, the new US Airways will have a different look.

OLD US Airways will retire 1500 pilots in 5 years and 1000 f/as with 1988 and more senior are taking early outs or retiring this year alone. Another 300 are leaving next year.

So when FAMikey and FormermoderAAtor start mouthing off, just remember that they come from their own entitled culture that disrespects others senority and feels stapling to the bottom is fair. Thety will justify their position till the cows come home. I still do NOT undrstand their obsession with US Airways. That IS NOT the policy with US Airways. If that makes me entitled, I could care LESS. These earthworms who will justify their beliefs will try to brainwash you in the AAmerican NAZI way.

You can hang in there and know you will be just fine, or give into their BS, fear based dribble and lose a fighting battle.

Regardless of who is in charge, we WILL be one. DOH HAS and WILL always be the fair way. Build those fence for as long as you want. I look forward to what your management team can do and I would welcome ANY AWA employees to my a/c anytime. It's ashame that many here want to instill fear and that the AWA employees can not see beyond petty issues. But again, some AAswhole will paint me ugly because I speak reality. <_<

 

[ClueByFour]

Two things:

This business about "Well, HP would have been in bankruptcy were it not for US" is bogus: as it stands, HP is the solvent entity. If you look at the equity distribution in the new company, the largest percentage is going to HP shareholders and the smallest percentage is going to US shareholders. There is a reason for this.

My bold prediction is that this merger will have some serious fences and I believe those who are currently furloughed are going to be screwed.

If any HP employee in ops (FAs, pilots, agents, mechs) takes a furlough because of this, or if a furloughed US employee in any of these groups causes it, it'll be gross injustice of an epic magnitude.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Actually, HP is not fronting money for this deal. All monies have been put in a "nameless" subsidiary under the US Airways Group. This "nameless" subsidiary has the money to front this. US Airways is NOT buying HP, but U is holding the pot.

[post="276452"][/post]​

Actually, the only money "fronted" has been from Air Wisconsin and that went into US Airways' coffers (or $100 million of it has so far, anyway). All the rest, at least so far, will go to purchase stock in the "new" America West Holdings post merger (or as a loan to the "new" America West Holdings in the case of the Airbus loan). If U is holding the pot, one could say that's all they're holding - an empty pot.....

Jim

 

[eolesen]

45 percent will be allocated to America West,

41 percent to the new equity

14 percent to US Airways.

[post="276537"][/post]​

The 14% going to US Airways is missing a very important word -- creditors.

Companies like GE, Airbus, EDS, leasing companies, etc. who are secured and unsecured creditors in the bankruptcy proceeding are going to divide up that 14%.

The only thing that US shareholders will get is perhaps a letter which informs them that their stock no longer has any value.

 

[700UW]

No where does it say creditors:

Equity Allocation
The $350 million of private equity commitments are based upon a total implied private full equity value of $850 million for the merged corporation. Of that $850 million valuation, 45 percent will be allocated to America West, 41 percent to the new equity and 14 percent to US Airways. This valuation results in an implied value of $6.12 per share for the publicly traded America West stock, taking into effect dilution from outstanding warrants and options and the anticipated treatment of convertible securities. The partners have agreed that up to $650 million of total equity can be raised including any proceeds from planned a rights offering. Any additional equity would dilute all participants pro rata. However, any additional equity raised above $350 million will not reduce the $6.12 per share of implied value for the publicly traded America West stock. The right to participate in a rights offering for up to $150 million in common shares of the merged companies is to be allocated 61.5 percent to the stakeholders of US Airways and 38.5 percent to the common stockholders of America West.

 

[BoeingBoy]

The 14% going to US Airways is missing a very important word -- creditors.

[post="276805"][/post]​

No where does it say creditors:

[post="276808"][/post]​

Actually, there are two words missing from the breakdown of who gets how much of the "new" stock - unsecured creditors.

Toward the end of the Wellington investment agreement is a listing of who gets how many shares of "new" stock:

1 - 8,212,121 shares of New Common Stock will be issued to the unsecured creditors of East.

Per the listing:

GE gets to keep their Convertible Notes, which could be converted into 5,747,126 shares of New Common Stock.

The ATSB would get warrents to acquire 8,126,210 shares of New Common Stock per the agreement between West (America West Holdings) and the ATSB from 2002. (oddly, no mention is made of the warrents the ATSB received from US Airways)

Jim