Seniority/merger

[Hopeful]

Once again, I think what TWAers are angry at is not so much that they got stapled, but the fact that AA lied to them. We were told that we were going to get a "fair and equitable" seniority integration. If AA was honest about how they planned on merging the work groups, NOT A SINGLE employee would have supported this transaction.

So the lesson here for HP and US is be fair, treat each other with respect and dignity, and don't let history repeat itself.

[post="272454"][/post]​

Welcome to the club, ambassador! AA has lied to us original AAer's longer than the TWAers.

Arbitrator Kasher ruled that fair and equitable seniority integration was based on AA's size compared to TWA.

 

[MCI transplant]

Once again, I think what TWAers are angry at is not so much that they got stapled, but the fact that AA lied to them. We were told that we were going to get a "fair and equitable" seniority integration. If AA was honest about how they planned on merging the work groups, NOT A SINGLE employee would have supported this transaction.

So the lesson here for HP and US is be fair, treat each other with respect and dignity, and don't let history repeat itself.

[post="272454"][/post]​

<_< 100% CORRECT!!!!! But not to worry! As I said before, "The Industry has these people nailed!!

 

[MCI transplant]

Welcome to the club, ambassador! AA has lied to us original AAer's longer than the TWAers.

Arbitrator Kasher ruled that fair and equitable seniority integration was based on AA's size compared to TWA.

[post="272514"][/post]​

<_< Ever hear the saying "Size really dosen't matter!"

 

[MCI transplant]

Welcome to the club, ambassador! AA has lied to us original AAer's longer than the TWAers.

Arbitrator Kasher ruled that fair and equitable seniority integration was based on AA's size compared to TWA.

[post="272514"][/post]​

<_< Intresting! So in the case of US/AW, US is the larger of to two, but wait! They're the one's in BK!!! AW is the smaller of the two, but wait! They're not!! So how would Kasher rule on this one as to what's fair and equitable ???? :unsure:

 

[MCI transplant]

Following the old truism I see:

"When intelligence and logic fail, resort to name-calling."

Pathetic.

[post="272373"][/post]​

<_< Normaly this is true! But I'm not the one who originated this name!!! And used in this contects, Oh how it fits!!!!!!!!

 

[eolesen]

Once again, I think what TWAers are angry at is not so much that they got stapled, but the fact that AA lied to them. We were told that we were going to get a "fair and equitable" seniority integration. If AA was honest about how they planned on merging the work groups, NOT A SINGLE employee would have supported this transaction.

[post="272454"][/post]​

For the record.... AA didn't promise anything related to seniority integration.

The respective unions determined how integration was going to take place.

So, before you start demanding things of Parker and Lakefield, you have to remember that they don't control the process. IAM, AFA, CWA, and ALPA do. They're going to be in control after integration -- IBT and the TWU get ousted because they represent fewer than 35% of the combined workgroups. It also looks like HP's agents get a union forced on them because of CWA...

As it's set up right now, HP employees stand to get the worse end of the deal.

 

[aafsc]

Once again, I think what TWAers are angry at is not so much that they got stapled, but the fact that AA lied to them. We were told that we were going to get a "fair and equitable" seniority integration. If AA was honest about how they planned on merging the work groups, NOT A SINGLE employee would have supported this transaction.

So the lesson here for HP and US is be fair, treat each other with respect and dignity, and don't let history repeat itself.

[post="272454"][/post]​

What Carty and AA told you meant nothing because the unions have 100% control of the seniority lists. The only thing Carty and AA could have done is hire the facilitators, which they did. Carty had NO LEGAL AUTHORITY to give you your TWA seniority at AA or to dictate to AA's unions on how to do seniority integration. In fact, ramp and mechanic went to binding arbitration which was called for in union contracts. When these FACTS are presented, the TWAers resort to whining and name calling. It eats away at them because they did not hit the "seniority jackpot" at AA.They need to accept what has happened and realize that they will not be able to rape all the nAAtives. As far as HP and US, the situation is similar to AA/TW but with some differences. Unlike AA/TW there are hardly any overlap in the route structure; one is West coast the other is East coast as to where AA/TW STL was redundant with regards to ORD and DFW. If I remember correctly, HP management said that they feel that no one on layoff should displace a currently working employee. If the unions say otherwise then you will have laid off people displacing currently working employees. And US unions (for ramp, AMTs, etc.) could very well be the surviving unions at the combined entity.

 

[aafsc]

For the record.... AA didn't promise anything related to seniority integration.

The respective unions determined how integration was going to take place.

So, before you start demanding things of Parker and Lakefield, you have to remember that they don't control the process. IAM, AFA, CWA, and ALPA do. They're going to be in control after integration -- IBT and the TWU get ousted because they represent fewer than 35% of the combined workgroups. It also looks like HP's agents get a union forced on them because of CWA...

As it's set up right now, HP employees stand to get the worse end of the deal.

[post="272598"][/post]​

I totally agree.

 

[MCI transplant]

For the record.... AA didn't promise anything related to seniority integration.

The respective unions determined how integration was going to take place.

So, before you start demanding things of Parker and Lakefield, you have to remember that they don't control the process. IAM, AFA, CWA, and ALPA do. They're going to be in control after integration -- IBT and the TWU get ousted because they represent fewer than 35% of the combined workgroups. It also looks like HP's agents get a union forced on them because of CWA...

As it's set up right now, HP employees stand to get the worse end of the deal.

[post="272598"][/post]​

<_< Sorry Moderator! Wrong! Carty did promise a "Fair and Equidable" intragration of seniority!! In fact, he did so in front of the US Congress!

 

[MCI transplant]

What Carty and AA told you meant nothing because the unions have 100% control of the seniority lists. The only thing Carty and AA could have done is hire the facilitators, which they did. Carty had NO LEGAL AUTHORITY to give you your TWA seniority at AA or to dictate to AA's unions on how to do seniority integration. In fact, ramp and mechanic went to binding arbitration which was called for in union contracts. When these FACTS are presented, the TWAers resort to whining and name calling. It eats away at them because they did not hit the "seniority jackpot" at AA.They need to accept what has happened and realize that they will not be able to rape all the nAAtives. As far as HP and US, the situation is similar to AA/TW but with some differences. Unlike AA/TW there are hardly any overlap in the route structure; one is West coast the other is East coast as to where AA/TW STL was redundant with regards to ORD and DFW. If I remember correctly, HP management said that they feel that no one on layoff should displace a currently working employee. If the unions say otherwise then you will have laid off people displacing currently working employees. And US unions (for ramp, AMTs, etc.) could very well be the surviving unions at the combined entity.

[post="272666"][/post]​

<_< Are you telling me we were lied to by Carty??? And he also lied to members of Congress of the United States??? These same Congress persons that now head the commity that will be deciding the fate of the "Wright Amendment"???

 

[Winglet]

And the same Carty who resigned as CEO because underhanded dealings with the union concession negotiations and his execs protected pensions? And the same Carty whose brother took Canadian airlines into the dirt? Is that who you're talking about?

 

[MCI transplant]

And the same Carty who resigned as CEO because underhanded dealings with the union concession negotiations and his execs protected pensions? And the same Carty whose brother took Canadian airlines into the dirt? Is that who you're talking about?

[post="272700"][/post]​

Yea!!! I think so!!!!

 

[scot]

If you wish to continue the AA/TW discussion, please take it back to the AA board. Thanks.

 

[Atlantic]

I agree that TWA got creamed by AA, but anyone been around long enough to rember what TWA did to Osark? For the most part, Osark pilots took it in the shorts, don't know about the rest of the Osark crafts.
And at that time, ALPA's position on merg. was straight d.o.h. TWA ALPA pulled a fast one with Nat. ALPA.