Sep 13 In Tempe Hq Re: F/a Fencing

[airlinedivalish]

THis was in the AFA66 Message Board

WHERE WE ARE-WHERE WE ARE GOING



Seniority Integration


The AFA Constitution outlines a merger policy that goes by date of hire.

America West MEC believes that this merger policy will impact our members negatively.

We have taken the following actions on behalf of our members:



* Constitutional Amendment- We have submitted an agenda item for the Board of Directors to consider at AFA’s Board of Directors (BOD) meeting in October. The amendment to the merger policy proposes an alternate system in addition to the current date-of-hire method of seniority integration. While this action will face many challenges it is definitely worth taking. More detailed information will be forthcoming regarding the process involved in moving this agenda item forward.

Fence Agreement


The Merger Committee met for the first time with our US Airways counterparts on August 24 and 25. These preliminary discussions on fences are outlined in the MEC update of August 26 and posted on the AFA 66 website. The following is Council 66 MEC’s position on these important matters:



* There will be no involuntary reassignment to any other US Airways Base for America West Flight Attendants as a result of the merger.
* Fences will be put in place for as long as needed, be it 20 years if necessary, to protect our Flight Attendants in the Phoenix/LAS Base.
* No furloughed US Airways Flight Attendant will bump out any active America West PHX/LAS base Flight Attendant.
* Any new hiring at AWA that utilizes furloughed US Airways FA’s shall not bump any AWA FA in seniority at the time they enter or at the time the US Airways and AWA’s seniority lists are merged. They need to enter at the bottom of the PHX Seniority list. Once they enter the AWA seniority list they come in as a new hire for bidding purposes.
* AWA Flying during the interim will be flown by AWA crews.

Pass Travel Policy


We understand this is a sensitive issue as US Airways and America West have different pass policies. US Airways uses DOH for pass travel priority and America West uses a first come first serve policy. We will lobby to keep our policy in place. US Airways will also lobby for their pass policies to be the one that prevails. The pass policy that the “new†US Airways eventually puts in place will be a decision made by Doug Parker and his management team.



Contractual Provisions


The Company would have you believe that there is no reason to continue this process. This is far from the truth. It is imperative that we finish this contract. We are fighting to secure a contract that will provide us pay increases, work rule enhancements as well as improved merger protections.



Our negotiating team has placed on the table key elements to protect our members during a merger. Section 1, Recognition and Scope, provides a series of seniority protections for our Flight Attendants. Your Negotiations Team added language that protects you from being bumped or displaced during a merger. It is of utmost importance to stand firmly behind the negotiating team at this time. To that effect we are calling for all members to join us in an “informational campaign†on Tuesday September 13. The Voice Committee will be passing out information this week at the airport as to how you can get involved.



We will meet again with US Air’s MEC in September to continue the discussion on Fences.



Your MEC is committed to its’ membership. We are fighting for you. Join Us In This Effort. Your Negotiating Team and Voice Committee will be asking for your assistance and providing information to you on how you can help.




AFA Rally at the AWA Share Holders Meeting
Tuesday, Sept. 13th from 9:30 a.m. to 10:30 a.m. (please come early)


On September 13th, America West will conduct its’ share holder meeting at corporate headquarters to get approval from the board to move forward with the merger. We must let the shareholders, media, and the public know that we are seriously concerned about current contract negotiations, as well as with the proceedings of the merger. Your participation in this event is vital.


Your MEC Officers

There will be HP Flight Attendants there rallying to protect the Phoenix base with signs that says "20 Year Fence!"

 

[goodgirl37]

THis was in the AFA66 Message Board

WHERE WE ARE-WHERE WE ARE GOING



Seniority Integration


The AFA Constitution outlines a merger policy that goes by date of hire.

America West MEC believes that this merger policy will impact our members negatively.

We have taken the following actions on behalf of our members:



* Constitutional Amendment- We have submitted an agenda item for the Board of Directors to consider at AFA’s Board of Directors (BOD) meeting in October. The amendment to the merger policy proposes an alternate system in addition to the current date-of-hire method of seniority integration. While this action will face many challenges it is definitely worth taking. More detailed information will be forthcoming regarding the process involved in moving this agenda item forward.

Fence Agreement


The Merger Committee met for the first time with our US Airways counterparts on August 24 and 25. These preliminary discussions on fences are outlined in the MEC update of August 26 and posted on the AFA 66 website. The following is Council 66 MEC’s position on these important matters:



* There will be no involuntary reassignment to any other US Airways Base for America West Flight Attendants as a result of the merger.
* Fences will be put in place for as long as needed, be it 20 years if necessary, to protect our Flight Attendants in the Phoenix/LAS Base.
* No furloughed US Airways Flight Attendant will bump out any active America West PHX/LAS base Flight Attendant.
* Any new hiring at AWA that utilizes furloughed US Airways FA’s shall not bump any AWA FA in seniority at the time they enter or at the time the US Airways and AWA’s seniority lists are merged. They need to enter at the bottom of the PHX Seniority list. Once they enter the AWA seniority list they come in as a new hire for bidding purposes.
* AWA Flying during the interim will be flown by AWA crews.

Pass Travel Policy


We understand this is a sensitive issue as US Airways and America West have different pass policies. US Airways uses DOH for pass travel priority and America West uses a first come first serve policy. We will lobby to keep our policy in place. US Airways will also lobby for their pass policies to be the one that prevails. The pass policy that the “new†US Airways eventually puts in place will be a decision made by Doug Parker and his management team.



Contractual Provisions


The Company would have you believe that there is no reason to continue this process. This is far from the truth. It is imperative that we finish this contract. We are fighting to secure a contract that will provide us pay increases, work rule enhancements as well as improved merger protections.



Our negotiating team has placed on the table key elements to protect our members during a merger. Section 1, Recognition and Scope, provides a series of seniority protections for our Flight Attendants. Your Negotiations Team added language that protects you from being bumped or displaced during a merger. It is of utmost importance to stand firmly behind the negotiating team at this time. To that effect we are calling for all members to join us in an “informational campaign†on Tuesday September 13. The Voice Committee will be passing out information this week at the airport as to how you can get involved.



We will meet again with US Air’s MEC in September to continue the discussion on Fences.



Your MEC is committed to its’ membership. We are fighting for you. Join Us In This Effort. Your Negotiating Team and Voice Committee will be asking for your assistance and providing information to you on how you can help.




AFA Rally at the AWA Share Holders Meeting
Tuesday, Sept. 13th from 9:30 a.m. to 10:30 a.m. (please come early)
On September 13th, America West will conduct its’ share holder meeting at corporate headquarters to get approval from the board to move forward with the merger. We must let the shareholders, media, and the public know that we are seriously concerned about current contract negotiations, as well as with the proceedings of the merger. Your participation in this event is vital.
Your MEC Officers

There will be HP Flight Attendants there rallying to protect the Phoenix base with signs that says "20 Year Fence!"

[post="298023"][/post]​

LOL !!! You are a joke - many airlines don't even last 20 years... get a grip.... you don't think you will have any attrition over 20 years and you will need no one to transfer in to cover those attritions... you people have alot to learn ... LOBBY ON!!

 

[jetstewus]

So what the HP MEC wants is for the two companies to merge...except for the flight attendant group. Let's lock everybody out of Phoenix. Well then you have to lock everybody IN to Phoenix as well. And why is the LAS base even in the discussion. Don't you have something like 30 flight attendants based there?

At what point do you think it will be okay to let someone who works for the same company as you bid into your base? At what point do you think it will be okay for the former HP flight attendants who WANT to relocate to an east coast domicile to be able to do so? If someone with say, 15 years at HP decides they want to be based in Philly, are we going to insist they go to the bottom of the list in that base? No, because we believe in seniority and we have lived by it through several mergers and the world kept turning. I mean, all this talk about everyone wanting to come to PHX...why? We have some people who live on the west coast who would probably love to come there...and why wouldn't you want them? They'd be happier and more productive. But the vast majority of US employees have built their lives around the east coast bases. We like out TransAtlantic. We like our Caribbean. We like our Siberacuse...okay, that's a lie. I think this idea of a flood of US people into PHX is kinda crazy.

I understand that you have to try to protect as much as you can. However, the move to ammend the AFA constitution is a step in the wrong direction as far as bringing the two work groups together. And by the way, YOUR membership is OUR membership. We are in the same union, remember. We are supposed to be in this together.

This ongoing posturing is getting old quick and will do nothing but foster bad feelings on both sides. Remembering the AA/TWA fiasco, AA folks kept saying, "they got their vacation, they got pay for longevity...the only thing they are not getting is their seniority." Now, since the AA's policy is to release furloughees after 5 years, it looks like the one thing they didn't get (because they were stapled and are all now out on furlough) is going to negate all the stuff they did get. And I don't give a crap if you call it a merger or aquisition, it shouldn't make a difference. If US were in a position to buy HP outright, we would not staple you. It would be DOH. Even if you perceive HP to be the "dominant" carrier, why wouldn't you treat US as you would like to be treated if they were perceived as such? .

Seniority is all we have in this industry. You guys know that or you wouldn't be fighting so hard to protect your own. But don't expect the US folks to give up theirs because the higher ups decided to partner with a younger company.

I am on furlough now for going on three years. Prior to that I had 2.5 years with US. Me and the thousands hired around the same time are not in a position to have any impact on your ability to bid. And with the fences, be they 5 years, 20 years, 1000 years, I will not be able to come back and bump someone out of PHX. Nor would I want to. I have no desire to come to PHX.

This deal is out of our hands. We are unionized so that everything that goes along with it is NOT out of our hands. It's going to be date of hire. Your fences will protect your beloved PHX for several years at least. Even then, you won't be able to be bumped out. God forbid, if there is a future involuntary furlough, you will probably do what we've been doing for the last five years...go from base to base to keep working. You guys are getting all fired up over things that are not likely to happen...and eventually we will still all have to work together. Let's step back and think about that before we go trying to change constitutions, spouting off insults and trying to make one company look like the savior of the other.

In the unlikely event I am ever called back, I want it to be to a somewhat harmonious environment...not one where people are constantly asking...are you HP or US? I mean...**ck that, right? That's kids stuff and none of us need that.

I am curious, though. What type of seniority integration does the HP MEC think would be fair, or do they want to keep it seperate forever? That would be a shame because US is bringing some really nice flying to the table.

I'd be interested to hear from any HP people who think DOH is fair.

 

[Fly]

I wonder if you'd say the same thing if you were an HP f/a with 15 years seniority.

 

[Zarah]

"Since 1988, when US Air merged with PSA, this airline has been through 3 mergers. PSA, Piedmont, and Trump Shuttle. Every single one was done by date of hire. This is the only fair way to merge two seniority lists." (copied from US Airways AFA website).

DOH was used before it was ever added to the AFA. It was not forced - it was the fair way.

 

[Fly]

Merge it may but how long will the fence last? That is the burning question. If no one wants to bump people, then a fence won't make a bit of difference, will it?

 

[EricLv2Fish]

LOL !!! You are a joke - many airlines don't even last 20 years... get a grip.... you don't think you will have any attrition over 20 years and you will need no one to transfer in to cover those attritions... you people have alot to learn ... LOBBY ON!!

[post="298028"][/post]​

Good points goodgirl.....Also I would like to add that having a "protest" of sorts at the shareholder meeting....the meeting is for shareholders.......guess it's a free country.

 

[hulagirl]

So what the HP MEC wants is for the two companies to merge...except for the flight attendant group. Let's lock everybody out of Phoenix. Well then you have to lock everybody IN to Phoenix as well. And why is the LAS base even in the discussion. Don't you have something like 30 flight attendants based there?

At what point do you think it will be okay to let someone who works for the same company as you bid into your base? At what point do you think it will be okay for the former HP flight attendants who WANT to relocate to an east coast domicile to be able to do so? If someone with say, 15 years at HP decides they want to be based in Philly, are we going to insist they go to the bottom of the list in that base? No, because we believe in seniority and we have lived by it through several mergers and the world kept turning. I mean, all this talk about everyone wanting to come to PHX...why? We have some people who live on the west coast who would probably love to come there...and why wouldn't you want them? They'd be happier and more productive. But the vast majority of US employees have built their lives around the east coast bases. We like out TransAtlantic. We like our Caribbean. We like our Siberacuse...okay, that's a lie. I think this idea of a flood of US people into PHX is kinda crazy.

I understand that you have to try to protect as much as you can. However, the move to ammend the AFA constitution is a step in the wrong direction as far as bringing the two work groups together. And by the way, YOUR membership is OUR membership. We are in the same union, remember. We are supposed to be in this together.

This ongoing posturing is getting old quick and will do nothing but foster bad feelings on both sides. Remembering the AA/TWA fiasco, AA folks kept saying, "they got their vacation, they got pay for longevity...the only thing they are not getting is their seniority." Now, since the AA's policy is to release furloughees after 5 years, it looks like the one thing they didn't get (because they were stapled and are all now out on furlough) is going to negate all the stuff they did get. And I don't give a crap if you call it a merger or aquisition, it shouldn't make a difference. If US were in a position to buy HP outright, we would not staple you. It would be DOH. Even if you perceive HP to be the "dominant" carrier, why wouldn't you treat US as you would like to be treated if they were perceived as such? .

Seniority is all we have in this industry. You guys know that or you wouldn't be fighting so hard to protect your own. But don't expect the US folks to give up theirs because the higher ups decided to partner with a younger company.

I am on furlough now for going on three years. Prior to that I had 2.5 years with US. Me and the thousands hired around the same time are not in a position to have any impact on your ability to bid. And with the fences, be they 5 years, 20 years, 1000 years, I will not be able to come back and bump someone out of PHX. Nor would I want to. I have no desire to come to PHX.

This deal is out of our hands. We are unionized so that everything that goes along with it is NOT out of our hands. It's going to be date of hire. Your fences will protect your beloved PHX for several years at least. Even then, you won't be able to be bumped out. God forbid, if there is a future involuntary furlough, you will probably do what we've been doing for the last five years...go from base to base to keep working. You guys are getting all fired up over things that are not likely to happen...and eventually we will still all have to work together. Let's step back and think about that before we go trying to change constitutions, spouting off insults and trying to make one company look like the savior of the other.

In the unlikely event I am ever called back, I want it to be to a somewhat harmonious environment...not one where people are constantly asking...are you HP or US? I mean...**ck that, right? That's kids stuff and none of us need that.

I am curious, though. What type of seniority integration does the HP MEC think would be fair, or do they want to keep it seperate forever? That would be a shame because US is bringing some really nice flying to the table.

I'd be interested to hear from any HP people who think DOH is fair.

[post="298035"][/post]​

Whoa--I've been flying for a couple of days, and a lot has happened!
Date of hire is fair, and it will prevail. That's been said, and to fight it is a waste of energy. I know people are nervous about it in PHX, but once it is all said and done, the fears will subside.
Emotions mar a good debate. This is an emotional issue, and for what? Don't all of the AFA carriers have to agree to change the bylaws? That won't happen. Niether will a 20 year fence.
Those fighting date of hire, remember to be careful what you pray for.You just may get it. Have a little foresight everyone--this isn't over (mergers).
Ive said it before, this is good for both carriers, both carriers need it, and the industry needs it.
LET'S STICK TOGETHER AND QUIT FIGHTING! B)

 

[N924PS]

Merge it may but how long will the fence last? That is the burning question. If no one wants to bump people, then a fence won't make a bit of difference, will it?

[post="298074"][/post]​

No one wants to bump anyone, but when an opening in a base is available why shouldn't it be available to a prospective bidder by seniority?

As another poster mentioned, there are probably AW flight attendants that would transfer to an East Coast base at some time in the future.

There simply are not that many former PSA employees that would be coming in to PHX or LAS. If all this nonsense about fences is aimed at restricting their bidding in to PHX or LAS, it is largely wasted effort. There will be no mass exodous of USAirways F/As to the AW bases. A few but not enough to make such a fuss.

Date of hire. No Fences. No Bumps. It's the only fair way for everyone.

 

[marco90821]

The furloughed US FAs should also be included in the merged seniority, albeit it may bump some current AWA FAs, but that too is only fair.

 

[TheNewLowFare]

The furloughed US FAs should also be included in the merged seniority, albeit it may bump some current AWA FAs, but that too is only fair.

[post="298091"][/post]​

The MEC have already said No Furloughed US F/As will bump an Active HP F/As. If they wish to come back, they would have to be below the HP F/As for the new LCC carrier.


If you think date of hire is fair, then this is fair.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

I understand the Flight Attendants pain, but I also remember when they were given training by the company back when they were voting to belong to AFA. The company said to be careful about joining, because if we merge, it would most likely be with a larger company with high seniority employees and that your seniority would be knocked down.

But, they took the risk, they wanted the union and nothing was going to stop them.

Be careful what you wish.

 

[ClueByFour]

The furloughed US FAs should also be included in the merged seniority, albeit it may bump some current AWA FAs, but that too is only fair.

[post="298091"][/post]​

No it's not. The furloughed folks don't bring a job to the merger table.

 

[700UW]

Yes they do, go read the AFA/US Airways contract, they are on the seniority list therefore they are included.

Boy, you hatred for unions is coming out.

 

[goodgirl37]

No it's not. The furloughed folks don't bring a job to the merger table.

[post="298118"][/post]​

They do bring a job - one that we worked for a long time b/f people at HP even came along - we will be merged in b/c we are on indefinite furlough until we are recalled.. so whether it be this year or next we will be slotted at our DOH.. Now that being said i think AW F/As are worried about a mass of people coming back - Thats not the case very few will come back from furlough... People have moved on up from poverty..