Sep 13 In Tempe Hq Re: F/a Fencing

[Light Years]

The MEC have already said No Furloughed US F/As will bump an Active HP F/As. If they wish to come back, they would have to be below the HP F/As for the new LCC carrier.
If you think date of hire is fair, then this is fair.

[post="298097"][/post]​

Uh, what?

A furloughed US F/A won't bump an actibe HP as in, get out I'm coming back, but once they are recalled they are recalled to DOH.

Oh hell no. You think a furloughed US F/A comes back as a new hire? Yeah, in PHX at the still seperate HP until thier recall to the US side. But not for good. Those F/As are on the US seniority list with a date of hire and no one is going to change it. You are reading something wrong.

The HP F/As have the same damm expectations as the US F/As did when hired. The US furloughees were hired for an Airbus narrowbody delivered every week on top of gangbusters transatlantic expansion. What were they supposed to expect... "Gee, maybe I shouldn't go to this airline, what if say, there was a terrorist attack, a revloving door of management seized it as an opportunity to downsize the airline by 50% through outsourcing. I'll instead go to the lower paying, decidedly less glamorous airline on the other side of the country commonly known as {at the time} America's Worst Airline in case there ever happens to be a merger between these polar opposite airlines." So an HP F/A hired six months ago is superior? How? "Hmm, I expect we will merge with another larger carrier." What do you think, these airlines are hiring Miss Cleo? As far as expectations go, EVERY US/HP F/A is arguably making out in this as being part of "the world's largest low-fare-full service airline" (so says the announcements)- and hopefully the growth and strength in numbers that will bring. Expectations are bunk. You can't believe what an airline tells you, you can onlt strap in in the brace position and hope for a smooth flight. That argument is so irritating. Stop acting as if the front line employees in a seniority driven industry have much control over the cmpany's destiny, or the ability to hop between companies that other careers enjoy.

Oh, and if the lawyer representing the "MidAtlantic" crews is as successful as he has been in his past 30 years of practicing airline labor law, you can add 300 more F/As to "active" list anyway.

And regardless of that, between the buyouts and Mother Nature to put it delicately, so many US F/As are going to be gone in the next couple of years that all of the furloughees should be back before any fence comes down

 

[Fly]

This is why mergers in a seniority based business are always tumultuous.

People at US may have 5 or 6 years seniority and may be furloughed. People at HP may have 6 months and be active. Regardless of what you believe is fair, the US person HAS flown longer. It WILL be DOH (AFA bylaws state it and they won't change that or risk losing current members at other airlines). There WILL be fences. But when the fences come down, it will be ONE seniority list (DOH).

Once the fences come down, IF there was a reduction in the workforce, seniority rules (most junior are out....HP)

Would I be worried if I were at HP? Probably Will there be an influx into PHX? Probably not. Does this give them a chance to someday fly some pretty nice flying internationally? ABSOLUTELY

This is the airline business. This is how it works. US looks to have turned things around for the better, enjoy it.

 

[SegmentKing]

or reverse that question and they close LAS... will those 30 / 35 FA's displace PIT/DCA/BOS USAir flight attendants who just got recalled?!?!

 

[xoxo]

Uh, what?

A furloughed US F/A won't bump an actibe HP as in, get out I'm coming back, but once they are recalled they are recalled to DOH.

Oh hell no. You think a furloughed US F/A comes back as a new hire? Yeah, in PHX at the still seperate HP until thier recall to the US side. But not for good. Those F/As are on the US seniority list with a date of hire and no one is going to change it. You are reading something wrong.

The HP F/As have the same damm expectations as the US F/As did when hired. The US furloughees were hired for an Airbus narrowbody delivered every week on top of gangbusters transatlantic expansion. What were they supposed to expect... "Gee, maybe I shouldn't go to this airline, what if say, there was a terrorist attack, a revloving door of management seized it as an opportunity to downsize the airline by 50% through outsourcing. I'll instead go to the lower paying, decidedly less glamorous airline on the other side of the country commonly known as {at the time} America's Worst Airline in case there ever happens to be a merger between these polar opposite airlines." So an HP F/A hired six months ago is superior? How? "Hmm, I expect we will merge with another larger carrier." What do you think, these airlines are hiring Miss Cleo? As far as expectations go, EVERY US/HP F/A is arguably making out in this as being part of "the world's largest low-fare-full service airline" (so says the announcements)- and hopefully the growth and strength in numbers that will bring. Expectations are bunk. You can't believe what an airline tells you, you can onlt strap in in the brace position and hope for a smooth flight. That argument is so irritating. Stop acting as if the front line employees in a seniority driven industry have much control over the cmpany's destiny, or the ability to hop between companies that other careers enjoy.

Oh, and if the lawyer representing the "MidAtlantic" crews is as successful as he has been in his past 30 years of practicing airline labor law, you can add 300 more F/As to "active" list anyway.

And regardless of that, between the buyouts and Mother Nature to put it delicately, so many US F/As are going to be gone in the next couple of years that all of the furloughees should be back before any fence comes down

[post="298488"][/post]​

Great post LY!! I think everyone has their own opinions. Some just dont wanna listen to the truth. They are in LaLa land. DOH is in the by laws..it will happen. You will see people...dont be scerred It will be ok. I just hope they get us "MAA" people back soon. The ink on the furlough letters is probably almost dry. You people at HP know that we are getting furloughed AGAIN over at the EMB-170 Division, Right? Yes..soon. Some junior pilots have already gotten theirs. This will be the f/a's 2nd furlough in less than 2-3 years. Some of us had 4 years at U before getting furloughed.

 

[mdarules]

Great post LY!! I think everyone has their own opinions. Some just dont wanna listen to the truth. They are in LaLa land. DOH is in the by laws..it will happen. You will see people...dont be scerred It will be ok. I just hope they get us "MAA" people back soon. The ink on the furlough letters is probably almost dry. You people at HP know that we are getting furloughed AGAIN over at the EMB-170 Division, Right? Yes..soon. Some junior pilots have already gotten theirs. This will be the f/a's 2nd furlough in less than 2-3 years. Some of us had 4 years at U before getting furloughed.

[post="298806"][/post]​

This is my fifth year and get a nice kick in the ass again... I have ordered the best padding possible for the event... hopefully it will be a softer landing this time.. Too bad they don't offer other jobs withing the company like HP does. But yes after this I expect to have my job back in the next couple of years.

 

[Us/boston]

The MEC have already said No Furloughed US F/As will bump an Active HP F/As. If they wish to come back, they would have to be below the HP F/As for the new LCC carrier.
If you think date of hire is fair, then this is fair.

[post="298097"][/post]​

[/quote

They come in as HP new hires and when they are recalled to U mainline they must leave PHX and return to an east coast base at that time they will receive there original seniority date. They will be kind of like HP temps. If they choose to stay in PHX they can resign their old seniority date and stay on as HP employee.(and in PHX) If they return to the east coast they will not retain any of their HP seniority. This is how it will go as far as I can tell.

 

[Us/boston]

i have a silly question, assuming there is a two year fence agreement. after two years when the fence is down, doug parker (hypothetically, for whatever reason), decides to downsize, lets say CLT. the flight reduction requires furloughing 500 flight attendants. do those flight attendants, assuming they have DOH, have the right to displace flight attendants in PHX, or only in prior USAir cities?
LAX

[post="298353"][/post]​

Very good question. In that case I think the AFA should and will put some protections for the HP F/A in place.

 

[osunut]

This is why mergers in a seniority based business are always tumultuous.

People at US may have 5 or 6 years seniority and may be furloughed. People at HP may have 6 months and be active. Regardless of what you believe is fair, the US person HAS flown longer. It WILL be DOH (AFA bylaws state it and they won't change that or risk losing current members at other airlines). There WILL be fences. But when the fences come down, it will be ONE seniority list (DOH).

Once the fences come down, IF there was a reduction in the workforce, seniority rules (most junior are out....HP)

Would I be worried if I were at HP? Probably Will there be an influx into PHX? Probably not. Does this give them a chance to someday fly some pretty nice flying internationally? ABSOLUTELY

This is the airline business. This is how it works. US looks to have turned things around for the better, enjoy it.

[post="298518"][/post]​

Don't foget one thing though that everyone might not know about. Even if the unions present a senority list to the company however they decided to do it, the new company has every right under RLA to reject the senority list. If you think I am wrong, talk to the union attorneys, they will tell you that yes the company can, if it so choses to reject the senority list as presented and then binding arbitration will then take place between the union and the company.
Hence the "Joint statement of fair and equitible" letter that was put out in the very beginning. I doubt this will happen ever, but I know that the company will probably not allow a furlough US FA to bump and active HP FA.

Just something to think about.

 

[goodgirl37]

The MEC have already said No Furloughed US F/As will bump an Active HP F/As. If they wish to come back, they would have to be below the HP F/As for the new LCC carrier.
If you think date of hire is fair, then this is fair.

[post="298097"][/post]​

[/quote

They come in as HP new hires and when they are recalled to U mainline they must leave PHX and return to an east coast base at that time they will receive there original seniority date. They will be kind of like HP temps. If they choose to stay in PHX they can resign their old seniority date and stay on as HP employee.(and in PHX) If they return to the east coast they will not retain any of their HP seniority. This is how it will go as far as I can tell.

[post="300346"][/post]​

LOL .... this is so ludicrous... Let me ask you this... If you hire 200 US fourlughed F/As as new hires and in 2 years after the fence is down these people will be back to our home the east coast.. Well then Phoenix will be short staffed due to attrition etc and the loss of 200 f/as ... Since we will be one compand and there will be 1500 f/a s on furlough still they will have to call those back due to any shortage and they will be slotted at their seniority. People keep trying to find a way for Phoenix to be sacred and not touched in any way - forget about it!!!! We have people transfering in and out and displacing to diff. bases. the list changes monthly you may be number 10 one month and number 45 the next... This is the way a large airline works peeps!! They will not displace anyone out of Phoenix if they are brought in as a HP new hire - They will be slotted in at their US date after the fence is down b/c it will be one company US.. We dont still run USAIR as TRUMP SHUTTLE PIEDMONT ALLE. PSA etc. come on guys - lets get real!!

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Anybody that uses any sort of "career expectations" as a guage for what they expect to happen are foolish. This day in age in the airline industry there are NO career positions, let alone any sort of "expectations". Both airlines' unions know this, and also understand just how stupid the argument is. It will be a difficult negotiation, in the sense that how do you weigh the potential seniority gain by, what is in reality junior folks, over the gain folks expect to make on the other side through the relatively short time for large retirement numbers. I'm just gonna pull up my chair and watch the cat fight.

 

[TheNewLowFare]

First of all, I don't know why you are all arguing about this. Nobody knows what's going to happen yet. Both MECs at US and HP and AFA are going to be the ones who will make the decision based on F/A feedback.

Don't let your fears take over! Just chill everyone and just go with the flow.

 

[LGA / 037]

"Since 1988, when US Air merged with PSA, this airline has been through 3 mergers. PSA, Piedmont, and Trump Shuttle. Every single one was done by date of hire. This is the only fair way to merge two seniority lists." (copied from US Airways AFA website).



Trump was not a merger ! Trump was a marketing agreement which in effect on Nov 1 ,1989. USAir had the option after 5 years to buy the Shuttle inc. product which they elected to do. The Trump employees which came from Eastern had to RESIGN, yes RESIGN in order to work for Trump but for some reason that neither the Unions nor USAirways can give a good reason why they were allowed to keep their Eastern Seniority! But your point is taken as how USAirways has always given the merged employees DOH. The Empire employees benefited by this as Piedmont screwed them when they merged with them back in 86. The good old boys put them at the bottom of both the payscale and seniority. When USAirways merged with Piedmont in 89 they went back and gave the Empire employees both DOH from Empire and adjusted their payscales which equated to about a $10,000.00 a year payraise. So as you can see by seniority purposes, USAir/USAirways has always done the DOH policy which HAS NOT ALWAYS BENIFITED THEIR OWN BUT OTHERS.

 

[700UW]

The mechanics sued the IAM and got their Eastern Seniority in court.

 

[LGA / 037]

The mechanics sued the IAM and got their Eastern Seniority in court.

[post="300436"][/post]​

I know 700. But why ? Remember these EAL employees all RESIGNED from EAL to join Trump.

 

[Light Years]

.
Trump was not a merger ! Trump was a marketing agreement which in effect on Nov 1 ,1989. USAir had the option after 5 years to buy the Shuttle inc. product which they elected to do. The Trump employees which came from Eastern had to RESIGN, yes RESIGN in order to work for Trump but for some reason that neither the Unions nor USAirways can give a good reason why they were allowed to keep their Eastern Seniority!

[post="300417"][/post]​

When Donald Trump decided to buy the Eastern Shuttle, he made an offer to every Eastern F/A (or at least the ones in the Shuttle bases), long before Eastern went under. If they resigned from Eastern and came to the Trump Shuttle, he would honor thier seniority and pay from Eastern. He wanted the experienced Shuttle F/As and needed an incentive to get them.

Most of the EAL F/As laughed at the idea. Some of them must have figured however, that EAL was on it's last legs, and everything Mr. Trump touched at the time turned into gold. Well, Eastern #### the bed and the Shuttle remains, so who's laughing now?

USAir Group bought the Shuttle and operated it as a whollly-owned subsidiary for several years- "Shuttle Inc." When they merged it into US Airways, those F/As had thier oriiginal seniority because that's what Trump offered them. Don't be hating on them. They made a tough choice and it ended up being the right one.