Most of the jobs you mentioned may be less fulfilling but not only do they pay around the same but they are probably less demanding as well, and one big thing is at those jobs you go home every night. I think you overestimate how many people want to work for an airline. Its not like it used to be, flying is affordable to most people, except airline workers!
Strike? Now?
- Thread starter Duke787
- Start date
Most of the jobs you mentioned may be less fulfilling but not only do they pay around the same but they are probably less demanding as well, and one big thing is at those jobs you go home every night. I think you overestimate how many people want to work for an airline. Its not like it used to be, flying is affordable to most people, except airline workers!
- Thread Starter
- #47
Bob, you are speaking like a guy in his 40s with a family. Lets think about women in their 20s or empty nest 50s, traveling seems pretty exciting, I can prove it just by looking at all the F/As we have who started out in their 20s and have been flying for the past 30 years. F/As who work 120 hours a month (which is alot to work) make in excess of $80k there are alot of F/A who make more then $100k. $40k if you just work your schedule after top out. Nobody makes that much money starting out. My first a/c maint job after the military, I made $10.50 an hour.
Flying is more affordable, but who has the time, a F/A gets the time plus free travel, don't forget F/A's get space available for free on UAL, SWA, and Alaska those are the ones I know for sure. And if they live in say Buffalo and fly out of ORD, the company will give them an A1 pass if they miss the first 2 flights to ORD. If a commuting F/A doesn't show up for work because of weather, all is forgiven because they commute. Sounds like a sweet gig. If I would have known then what I know now, I might picked a different career.
Bob, we all want a raise, but we're doing better then most, and we will not get any sympothy for a strike.
upsilon
Senior
- Aug 20, 2002
- 372
- 2
Dave, I'm shocked at your lack of basic economic skills as well as the knowledge of the union "party line" on taxation. Don't you understand that the 'sales' or 'consumption' tax is an anathma to liberals. It is a 'flat tax' and thus hits disproportionately the lower the income. Didn't you learn that a 'graduated tax' based on 'earnings' is the only 'fair' way to tax.
After all as a union man, don't you agree that the goal of government should be to tax based on ability to pay? And isn't that best determined by both what is one's income and what is the value of one's possessions. Remember Marx, "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need". You do believe in the "collective" approach to valuation of the worth of your labor, don't you?
I admit I don't believe in any of the above. BTW, in the early days of my working career, I was once a member of two unions that I was required to join in order to work in that field. But neither union had any control over what I could earn. I would gladly pay double the sales tax and/or a European style Value Added Tax instead of an income tax. Why, because my basic 'consumption' (food, clothing, transportation, shelter) is no greater than yours. But based on your posts, my spendable income is more. And a portion of that difference goes into savings and items that are not reached by 'consumption' taxes.
Dave, I suggest you go back to your old AMFA personna on this and the PB/BB - or stick to the recent Gordon Gekko message of "greed", "greed", and more "greed" by AA management - or your ability to get by with basic survival skills. But for the sake of your credibility, lay off of economics "lessons" involving the income tax.
I have flow during the best of time and also during the worst of times and I can promise you that being a f/a is one of the least "demanding" jobs I've ever worked. Seriously...
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
I've said before that I am retired, so no surprise there. Of course, an IAM strike isn't a work stoppage by all industry unions either.
Depends on who you're talking about when you say "this industry." Maybe you need to look around at the industry instead of just assuming everyone is as unhappy as you. You've mentioned UPS & FedEx - how are those mechs doing these days? You think they'd walk out to get you a raise? How about WN? Your problem is the same as ALPA's when it's about trying to get "the industry" employees to take any concerted action. Too many different interests for too many employees to worry about. Not many, if any, worry about what a mech makes at airline X.
Jim
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
Those applicants didn't want to play airline, they wanted to play airline employee...
Jim
Bagbelt
Senior
- Apr 3, 2004
- 454
- 6
Before I took my current job I was offered a postion at Jb. As a maint. supervisor the best they could do was 15k less than what I made on the floor at AA. Even the non-union second string outfit fixing the tsa bagrooms was 5k more than they offered just turning a wrench. If that is going to be the future of this business, then you better marry well..
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,988
- 9,428
Yes, but someone obviously filled that job, and I'd be curious to see how much the guys who have been there for 10 years (yes, they're now 10 years old...) have made out between stock, bonus, and salary growth. I never seem to hear of people who've been at Jetblue for more than a few years leaving because the pay sucks...
Bagbelt
Senior
- Apr 3, 2004
- 454
- 6
You're right, I'm sure there are other benefits. The only reason I didn't take it was that I already commited to something else and they were decent enough to point out if I took on something I would have to quit I would be barred from any future consideration. I work with a guy who was an a/c mech. there and while the pay was standard the biggest turn off was comp time instead of OT. and the 5 year contract deal. He said that hurts them more than anything else. People like me in their forties can remember when getting any job in this industry was a big deal. Too see how far it's fallen is sad. The days when a guy could throw bags and be in the middle class are ending. However the kids coming in have no memory of this so they probably don't expect much. It's like the 95 contract with the 5 and 5 early out, the old timers ran for the doors leaving $6 an hour junior clerks. When people talk of concessions sometimes they don't realise the people who made the big bucks are long gone, and whats left have never made much to begin with.
Runwaysticker
Advanced
- Dec 24, 2007
- 179
- 17
I started out in the early 80s making 12.25 a hour and was better off then than now with almost 30 years,
we dont need a long contract with no raise in sick time, vacation, and hourly rate, not to even think about
cuts of AMTs in line stations.......... :down:
Attachments
- Thread Starter
- #57
Jetblue takes care of ALL their employee's. At Jetblue, they allow all the employee's to non-rev in the jumpseats, not like at AA where only the F/A's get to ride in the jumpseat. It's a contract agreement that AA and APFA made, and AA has arranged for a reciprocal agreement with UAL, SWA, and Alaskan Air so our F/A's can ride on their flights for free and their F/A's can ride on our flights for free. AA really takes care of our flight crews, but yet the flight crews complain the most. It's funny, you never hear this info from a F/A when they say how AA does nothing for them.
- Thread Starter
- #58
Tell someone out of work that you're a F/A making $45 an hour and want to go on strike. See if you get any sympothy. I didn't say we don't deserve a raise. I didn't say our buying power hasn't fallen behind the times. There are alot of other industrys not doing well, and there are alot of people out of work that will take the F/A jobs if they strike. Worked a flight this morning and there was a F/A who only works 5 days a month, She could probably be replaced fairly easy.
No he's a mechanic making $32/hr, or around 40% less in real terms compared to what he was making in 2003 and the company wants him to work harder while his pay declines another 12%.
- Thread Starter
- #60
All good points Bob, but still nothing I'm going to strike over right now. I don't think anyone will argue your points about money, but to suggest that the unions should go on strike now, at time when our power is at an all time low is just wrong. Especialy for the F/A's who could be replaced very easily. I don't mean to sound like I'm disrespecting the F/A's, but how much F/A experiance did all the senior ones have when they hired on, mechs needed 3 years when I started, pilots i believe was 2500 hours, a F/A needed to be 21 with a high school education. Not saying that they are not a well educated group of people, but a masters degree isn't needed to be a F/A. They need to be realistic, how many F/A's are on a leave now, how many just drop all their trips, how many are on the sick list at any one time(about 1500 if it's not a holiday about 2500 if a holiday).
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