What really sucks about the juniority list, is that with multiple waves of layoffs, the junior people get laid off first and then get first dibs at the stations. The more senior folks laid off last get the toaster leavings.
TAESL RIF Facts
- Thread starter The Rookie
- Start date
WeAAsles
Veteran
- Oct 20, 2007
- 23,191
- 5,343
Seen that. Also saw junior people get the $12,500 back in 03 while I got recinded and left dangling 7 from the bottom, only to be laid off right after our concessions and get squat besides my big screen moved across country and some gas money.Slopoke said:
topDawg
Veteran
- Nov 23, 2010
- 2,957
- 2,353
while it does make things harder on those in MIA/DFW two thingsWeAAsles said:
1) don't work for an airline if you don't want to move. It happens. Bases/stations come and go. That is the industry. If you aren't willing to move then be prepared to quit at anytime or don't work for an airline.
2) making things harder on the company will make them think twice before laying off. Training costs and things like that adding up helps labor. Juniority is something that lowers those costs and makes it much easier on the airline. (thus more willing to lay-offs)
Topcat187
Senior
- Jun 25, 2012
- 346
- 170
Ive posted this before, and i will do it again. Its always the station getting laid off that brings up the juniority system and says its not fair. Most of these same people were protected at one time or another from another station laying off, due to the juniority. Why was there no complaining then?
Everything has a value when it comes to cba items. If you are willing to have more of the money allocated to your new cba toward a more expensive way of laying off, then the company will probably go with it. So, take the difference in cost and subtract it from your hourly salary and there you go.
Whats fair is whats in the cba, until it says otherwise.
Everything has a value when it comes to cba items. If you are willing to have more of the money allocated to your new cba toward a more expensive way of laying off, then the company will probably go with it. So, take the difference in cost and subtract it from your hourly salary and there you go.
Whats fair is whats in the cba, until it says otherwise.
How true, all of a sudden the two places where a lot of mechs work is effected by a layoffs, all of a sudden think juniority is bad, but when they were safe in there shops with days Saturday Sunday off, well that's what the contract says.TopCat870 said:
Hopefully we adopt the IAM version, respect our seniority and make AA think about upending a families life.
Why? Say AA closes a station like AFW, BNA, RDU where a lot of mechs work and want to have normal schedule say at a place like Tulsa where it's also cheap to live. Those TUL mechs ( the majority at the time) don't want their life's upended so they vote in juniority decades ago to protect themselves. It's the classic IGM.Kev3188 said:
WeAAsles
Veteran
- Oct 20, 2007
- 23,191
- 5,343
bigjets said:
The only way AA will care is if there is a monetary burden attached to laying off a large group of people at a time. The logistics aren't a factor since we're all just numbers on a spread sheet to the bean counters.
In DFW after Sept 11 I had 650 FT below me and got laid off. They claimed "Act of War" and held back the $12,500 penalty. No way would they have done it if they needed to pay.
And I was recalled in exactly 1 month and a half.
You have to understand that Tulsa is already divided within itself, long before the Line ever becomes involved. For the last 30 years this division has caused major heartache with who?,, the Line.bigjets said:
Then the Line blindly blames the entire membership at Tulsa. Now the Line is larger in numbers I would think that someone is going to see how things can work when reversed. The most important part is that the TWU, knows how to instill fear in it's membership.
That's pretty funny seeing that the highest number of layoffs always happen in Tulsa. Do you even realize what you post? You need to throw that crack pipe away. Next thing you'll be blaming Tulsa for global warming. The TWU are the ones who signed off on this system and realistically you line guys have benefited from it more than Tulsa has. Do you remember the 5% rule that kept everywhere except Tulsa from being affected by more than 5% of their numbers? Before you go off on stuff that you obviously don't know anything about remember there are those of us around who have been here and seen this stuff.bigjets said:
Juniority, seniority, like usual, we eat ourselves and blame each other, instead of having a representative that cares for and helps the membership. This is on the locals and a failure of our representatives to work through issues, they could have greatly mitigated the movement with extra checks at DFW airport.. The company has the capacity at DFW and DWH to accommodate everyone or nearly everyone at Taesl if they used the hangar space wisely but they don't, instead, they opt to send work out to vendor, unregulated and unchecked by the union, and, to move work from DFW to stations such as MIA, JFK, ORD and LAX, that's where the work is now, and that's been great for those stations, hooray for them!! BUT, that's where the vacancies are and because of the economics of those areas, junior people are there. And our rifs work that way, the bottom junior people on the system seniority list and vacancies are identified and exposed, its always been that way except for once or twice when 514 cut a deal and didn't follow the agreement.
And now these senior guys are cast to the wind at those stations and they think they should be able to knock junior guys out of DFW but, that's not how the agreement works. We all know the discussion, heard it time and time again, AFW had the chance to be one station with DFW, they chose a long time ago the insulate themselves and not be one station, now it has come around and bit them in the arse and what else can they do except litigate. A waste of the membership money, because, the bottom junior people on the system seniority list were not at DFW.
The issue in the nutshell is, more stupidity by everyone involved, union leadership, (if that's what you want to call them) membership, company, management, the ignorance goes on and on.
And now these senior guys are cast to the wind at those stations and they think they should be able to knock junior guys out of DFW but, that's not how the agreement works. We all know the discussion, heard it time and time again, AFW had the chance to be one station with DFW, they chose a long time ago the insulate themselves and not be one station, now it has come around and bit them in the arse and what else can they do except litigate. A waste of the membership money, because, the bottom junior people on the system seniority list were not at DFW.
The issue in the nutshell is, more stupidity by everyone involved, union leadership, (if that's what you want to call them) membership, company, management, the ignorance goes on and on.
Good points. We all know it's not right and we also know the company wanted the juniority system and the virtual bump and so the TWU let it happen even though it was not good for any of us. What I don't understand is AFW not wanting a one station agreement with DFW. When AFW opened there was high seniority that went there.DallasConehead said:
OldGuy@AA said:
They never wanted the one station I am told because they were never going to close AFW per the 567 leadership. Remember the Matt rant letter on what everyone can do with themselves, AFW is king.
Also, why the hell didn't Larry try to change the juniority system in 2012?
