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I don't guess this one. Why would private business need protection from law suits? Any business has the right to refuse service for whatever reason. I cannot envision seeing a court ruling in favor of a same sex couple complaining that the Catholic church said they would not marry them.

Newhampshire close to approving same sex marriage
 
Garfield1966 said:
I don't guess this one. Why would private business need protection from law suits? Any business has the right to refuse service for whatever reason. I cannot envision seeing a court ruling in favor of a same sex couple complaining that the Catholic church said they would not marry them.

Newhampshire close to approving same sex marriage
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Garfield,

Open a resturant near a freeway and refuse to serve a minority and see what happens. Perhaps the churches are worried about the same principles being applied to their situation in the future with gay marriage.
 
I understand that GTL, but are there not different standards? Private woman's schools do not need to allow men in. But lets go with your example. Is that against the law? I'm not trying to be funny. Is it against the law for a business that is privately owned to be racist?
 
Garfield1966 said:
I understand that GTL, but are there not different standards? Private woman's schools do not need to allow men in. But lets go with your example. Is that against the law? I'm not trying to be funny. Is it against the law for a business that is privately owned to be racist?
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Yes; very different standards as of right now. I think the concern of many might be that, someday, homosexuals may become a protected class like race. It isn't really against the law to be racist; but it is against the law for a publilc accomodation such as a resturant to refuse service to someone because of race. That's why you don't see the "white only" signs. I am just explaining their possible rationale, not my stance on the issue.
 
I think Piney and I had this discussion earlier. I do not foresee gays becoming a protected class. I think we have seen what that does and I believe it does more harm than good. Most of the arguments I have heard are asking for equal treatment under the law. I have heard/see/read nothing of quotas, reparations or any thing else.

I understand that it is not your stance.
 
Garfield1966 said:
I think Piney and I had this discussion earlier. I do not foresee gays becoming a protected class. I think we have seen what that does and I believe it does more harm than good. Most of the arguments I have heard are asking for equal treatment under the law. I have heard/see/read nothing of quotas, reparations or any thing else.

I understand that it is not your stance.
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What the hell do you think is the intent of hate crimes legislation.
 
Do you think drawing your initials on my fence is the same as drawing a Nazi cross on my fence? DO you think they should be penalized the same? Do you think I view them as the same?

Can you explin to me how hate criems translates into a protected class? I do not see the connection.
 
Garfield1966 said:
Do you think drawing your initials on my fence is the same as drawing a Nazi cross on my fence? DO you think they should be penalized the same? Do you think I view them as the same?

Can you explin to me how hate criems translates into a protected class? I do not see the connection.
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1) Well...If you feel it's somehow more '"acceptable" to have some moron deface your property with his/her initials than it it is for the same moron to do so with a swastika....and imagine that the latter case should somehow be more severely prosecuted (ie; A "hate" crime) just because you personally find it to be more "offensive"?...Well...there's just no explaining things much further here.

2) If anyone feels it's a more "serious" crime to murder someone for their race, creed, sexual orientation, or whatever else..than it is to murder that same someone for other reasons,..well?...that's just flat-out INSANE "thinking". Case in point = Person A is murdered in a drive by shooting. What's the "proper" protocol for leveling charges against their murderer(s)? Should we first ask if it was done for reasons of gang turf disputes? Would it be best to factor in the respective genetic backgrounds of the killer(s) and victim? Should we determine whatever religious beliefs might possibly be involved? Let's not forget gender and/or sexual orientation of course.....Is there, in ANY actual fact, even the slightest reasonable basis for elevating the tragic victim A of the drive by/whatever, into magically becoming some extra-extra"special" person, who's legal "value", due to some personal condition, supposedly makes them more "worthy" of obtaining more severe legal retribution against their killer(s) than "Joe/Jane Average" are?

Go for it. Just try and even defend the moral and logical absurdity of legislating "hate crimes" if you even possibly can.
 
Garfield1966 said:
Do you think drawing your initials on my fence is the same as drawing a Nazi cross on my fence? DO you think they should be penalized the same? Do you think I view them as the same?

Can you explin to me how hate criems translates into a protected class? I do not see the connection.
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How about Christian preaching towards homosexual intolerance?
 
Dell,

Speech is protected. I am referring to actions.

East,

If you think initials are the same as a swastika or a noose, then you have no idea what you are talking about.

A noose for a black person or a swastika to a jew is a threat and IMO is quite different from someone putting their initials on my garage door.

As for more serious crimes it becomes less important. Why someone was murdered or beaten is irrelevant. It's the lesser crimes where I feel it is important and the motivation need to be taken into account to make the penalty harsher for a hate crime.
 
Garfield1966 said:
Dell,

Speech is protected. I am referring to actions.

East,

If you think initials are the same as a swastika or a noose, then you have no idea what you are talking about.

A noose for a black person or a swastika to a jew is a threat and IMO is quite different from someone putting their initials on my garage door.

As for more serious crimes it becomes less important. Why someone was murdered or beaten is irrelevant. It's the lesser crimes where I feel it is important and the motivation need to be taken into account to make the penalty harsher for a hate crime.
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Carving swastika's on your door would be Constitutionally protected and constitute no hate crime unless you came out and they carved them in your forehead for instance.

The GLBT crowd was hell bent on protected class type law but it appears cooler heads in Congress prevailed.

Bill
 
delldude said:
Carving swastika's on your door would be Constitutionally protected and constitute no hate crime unless you came out and they carved them in your forehead for instance.

The GLBT crowd was hell bent on protected class type law but it appears cooler heads in Congress prevailed.

Bill
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Exactly how is carving a swastika much less anything else on my property protected by the COTUS?

There are always segments of society who what something extreme. I do not feel it is fair to use them as a representation of the society as a whole.
 
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