The Call

[UAL_TECH]

You have not answered the question. Who's rights are being deprived by granting gays the right to marry? Who am I forcing to abide by my beliefs?

Page #28 of 28 pages.
Do you need a map?

 

[Garfield1966]

Page #28 of 28 pages.
Do you need a map?

As opposed to a non answer? Yes a map would be nice.

 

[Garfield1966]

WHY should a lifestyle choice be including with racial preferences?

While many will argue that they were born gay, the truth is that is that any sexuality is a learned behavior based on personal preference.

Do you have any medical documentation to back that up.

And since when was asking for equal treatment under the law 'preferential treatment"?

 

[Garfield1966]

You need to put what ever you are smoking down. We are talking about equal access to marriage or Civil Union rights. I have seen nothing in any of the bills before Congress that would change anyone's legal status in terms of preferred minority.

Do you think what happened to the Irish and Italians is equal to what happened to the Blacks and Japanese and Native Americans?

When you find any medical documentation that supports your claim, I'd love to see it.

 

[Garfield1966]

When you can't get a decent job and feed your family it doesn't matter whether you're black Japanese, Irish or Italian. If you starve to death as a result you aren't any less dead because you were Irish as opposed to black.

Why not include people of Appalachian Origin as a Preferred Minority?
It's hard to find a group that has had it rougher then those who grew up deep in the hils of KY, TN & WV.

You know as well as I do that once the Civil Union, Gay Marriage issue is resolved in favor of Gays and Lesbians the next step will be to garner Preferred Minority status.

Freedom & Liberty flourish when NO ONE has a legal advantage over another based on race, gender or sexual preference

The Japanese were taken out of their homes, their property was stolen or sold at pennies to the dollar, they were placed in concentration camps with no trial. Native Americans were slaughtered by the tens of thousands, treaties were breached on a regular basis. Their land was stolen, they were a nomadic people who were up rooted and sent to reservations on land that no one else wanted (for the time being) they per prohibited from speaking their native languages and from performing their native dances. Blacks were lynched at will, sold as property (read horse, plow or other house hold utility item) and were told by the USSC that they were not equal to a full human. Not to mention segregation that was legally justified.

Yes there were other instances of bigotry in the US but the cases of the Native Americans, Blacks and Japanese Americans stands out because these were actions taken by the US Government, not by isolated bigots and local hatred. There were no laws sanctioning the actions taken against the Irish or Italians. Just as not all graffiti is not equal ... A smiley face painted on a wall is not the same as a Swastika painted on a wall. While the bigotry perpetrated against the Irish and Italians (and other groups) was horrible, it is not in my opinion an the same level as what was done against the ones I mentioned.

As for marriage. Did you even read the last two sentences that your wrote? Take Gay out of the equation. Civil union should be allowed for everyone and it should carry the same rights as mariage.

Freedom & Liberty flourish when NO ONE has a legal advantage over another based on race, gender or sexual preference

So you believe that all people should be allowed to marry right? Because as it stands now, not all people have equal legal standing. People of the same sex may not enter in to the same contracts that people of opposite sex may enter into.

 

[Garfield1966]

I've said time and again that I've no problem with civil unions and the semantics behind opposing "Marriage".

Honestly Garfield I don't care who does what with whom behind a closed door and my belief is that it's none of the Governments business.

What I do object to is the whole "Preferred Minority" BS perpetrated by the Federal Government as you can't correct past prejudices by punishing those in the present. I work on a very simple principle that the rights of the individual take precedence over the rights of Governments, political parties, unions and special interest groups.

If Adam & Steve want to enter into a legal binding contract that defines the parameters of their relationship it's their business and I don't have a say and neither should the Government.

One should take note of history in this regard. The Founding Fathers were so fundamentally opposed, even fearful of a theocracy that the word God appears nowhere in the Declaration of Independence.

Legal Scholars who ascribe to the theory of "Original Intent" should be hard pressed to support any law that prevents the individual from exercising all of their freedoms and liberties that the Founding Fathers so effectively created. The fact that this took place at a time that blacks were considered 3/5ths of a person speaks volumes about their foresight and wisdom of those involved. Also keep in mind that women at that time were viewed as property.

Then it appears that here we are in agreement with the exception that I do not believe that gays are seeking preferential treatment or status.

I am curious, how do you see the 3/5 women as property issue as indications of forethought and wisdom? I always viewed these as compromises that were made in order to get the south to agree to join the union.

 

[Garfield1966]

Actually it was blacks who were 3/5 of a person. Women were considered property and if you're familiar with the traditional wedding ceremony the phrase "Who Giveth this woman" is evidence dating back to pre Magna Carta days.

When you consider that in 1776 that the above was true then the efforts to create a society free from oppression was a monumental accomplishment given the climate of the times.

It's quite sad that in my lifetime I've seen no leadership at the Presidential level that came anywhere close to the visionaries that created our nation and it's that leadership and vision or actually the lack thereof that will lead us to ruin and it's already started

There was supposed to be a '/' between the 3/5 and women.

That's an interesting perspective. Never thought of it that way. Thanks

 

[UAL_TECH]

Do you have any medical documentation to back that up.

And there is nothing that supports it. (other than a couple of asexual penguins).

And since when was asking for equal treatment under the law 'preferential treatment"?

'Equal' treatment is not the agenda.

B) xUT

 

[Garfield1966]

Nothing that supports what?

Equal treatment is the agenda unless you can show me bills or resolutions that say otherwise.

 

[UAL_TECH]

Nothing that supports what?

Equal treatment is the agenda unless you can show me bills or resolutions that say otherwise.

Do you need help with the 'quote' feature?

 

[Garfield1966]

No. You figured out who I was asking.

Try answering the question.

 

[UAL_TECH]

No. You figured out who I was asking.

Try answering the question.

You first...... 😛

 

[nuclearfission]

Do you think what happened to the Irish and Italians is equal to what happened to the Blacks and Japanese and Native Americans?

Garfield. I chose this portion of your quote for a particular reason. I know you are trying in vane to make an argument for "civil unions" for gays......cool...whatever. However, I believe what Piney is trying to get across to you, and you are not comprehending, is the fact that EVERYONE wants some sort of "protected status", or, as you would call it, "equal status". That is all fine and dandy.

Now......back to your quote that I chose. I have no idea of your age, gender, or how you may have been "brought up", so to speak. But, it is surely clear to this poster the ignorance you show with the quote I chose. Being from the Pittsburgh, Pa region, and being of Slovak and Scottish/Irish roots, the statement you made clearly shows your naivete in regards to true American roots, and what built this country into what it is today. Slovaks, Irish, Italian, German, Chinese, and, yes, YOUR infamous use of "blacks", built this country to what it is. Besides blacks and the Japs :unsure: , do you realize how these Ethnic Minorities I mentioned were treated at the time??? Working in steel mills/coal mines for 12-16 hours a day, EVERY day? Given the worst of jobs, living in Company housing, paid by Company script to shop for everything at Company "stores"? Treated like manure.
Japs?...."Native Americans"?.......Blacks?....Were there injustices along the way?? Yes there was. Are we a perfect country?......Probably not......Nothing is perfect. Where is the United Slovak, Italian, Irish, German, Russian.....WHITE college fund???? That would go over real good!

Enough of the America is a bad country crap!! This is the greatest country on Earth.......you have not a good thing to say about it!

If you want a good history lesson....read a book....called... Out of this Furnace. You may learn a great deal of what people before you had to do to SURVIVE....and PROSPER in this great USA.....without whining about "quotas"....or, "equal treatment".

MOD Gods.......I proved my worthyness :angry:

 

[Garfield1966]

Looks like NY might be next in line to approve same sex marriages.

Full article

 

[delldude1]

USA gays should be happy.....

How that song go:

Livin' in the USA?