The Official Us/hp Ideas For A Happy Merger Thread

[El Gato]

Given that the greatest roadblock for a US/HP merger is on the labor front, I thought it would be a good idea for everyone in the know to post here their ideas on how to get it all done without angering too many folks. Let's discuss the pros and cons of each way of merging the seniority lists, protecting the little guys from being squashed, and finding a way overall to get it all to work.

I believe that should it be approved, a merger between HP and US would be a positive and not a negative. It would create a carrier that has at least a CHANCE of standing up to WN, who is the single biggest threat to all other carriers in the US. It would create a fine route network, one to rival even the largest of carriers. The list of good things is long, but so is the list of problems with making it all work. So let's get some ideas from out there...

 

[700UW]

The ONLY way to intergrate is Dovetail, I know the Mechanic and Related and Fleet Service contracts at US all have the Allegheny/Mowhawk Labor Protection Provisions, which spell out Seniority Intergrations by Dovetail.

 

[Twicebaked]

The ONLY way to intergrate is Dovetail, I know the Mechanic and Related and Fleet Service contracts at US all have the Allegheny/Mowhawk Labor Protection Provisions, which spell out Seniority Intergrations by Dovetail.

[post="264452"][/post]​

It is only fair that way. AWA employees are not asking to be bought nor are the US employees. Why should any of them lose their years of service, no matter how long or short it has been. Everybody below the year 1983 will be bumped down slightly on both sides, AWA and US. Will I be bumped dowm? Yes, but I will deal with it to make it work. It isn't us vs. them. We (the airlines involved) are in this together not seperately. Others......butt the hell out of it. Everyone on the AWA or US side seems to be okay with this so far. Why are AA and UA employees on here not? It doesn't concern you. I am not speaking for all parties on these boards.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

Is dovetail date of hire?

or

Is dovetail 'equipment ratio' ?

or

Is dovetail maintain relative seniority?

 

[ZMAN777]

It would create a fine route network, one to rival even the largest of carriers.

[post="264451"][/post]​

Not to rain on your parade as I can sense your enthusiasm, and that's good, but surely you don't actually believe what you wrote do you? Fine route network? One to rival even the largest of carriers? YGBSM! LMAO!

I don't think Arpey at AA or Tilton at UAL, not to mention SWA, will be losing any sleep over this one anytime soon. With the exception of a notable number of European destinations and a fair number of destinations in the Caribbean there isn't the presence on the international route structure that is about the only area that promises decent yields.

The combined domestic structure looks fairly anemic as well. Lets see, hubs at PHX (SWA stronghold!) and LAS for HP, PHL (SWA playground!) and CLT for U. That's it! Yes, I know there are "plans" for expanding but don't forget that you don't live in a vacuum and the other domestic LCC's as well as legacy carriers will surely respond in kind. Good luck. Unless there is more to this than just U/HP I don't give it much of a chance of ever happening.

Cheers,
Z B)

 

[700UW]

Dovetail is date of hire or date of classification, depends on what group you are in.

 

[SpinDoc]

It is only fair that way. AWA employees are not asking to be bought nor are the US employees. Why should any of them lose their years of service, no matter how long or short it has been.

Here is what should happen:

1. In cases where the unions are the same, ie. ALPO and
AFA, they should be integrated by hire date and certificate
type. Period. Combine the lists and keep the senior employees
from both organizations.

2. Corporate HQ should be integrated in either AZ or in
CLT. It's time to close the doors in CCY. Oh, and senior
management of HP should take control with US senior
VP's and Directors kicked to the curb. HP has shown
forward movement with their business plan. US has
shown absolutely nothing. If the creditors screw this
one up, they will get what they deserve.

3. The IAM and CWA should be intergrated into
HP unions with similar job scope in order of
combined seniority.

Just my .02.

 

[700UW]

The res and csa at HP have no contract therefore no scope language.

And the piece of crap IAM M&R contract still is better then the IBT contract over at HP in regard to scope.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

Im not going to offer an opinion, but aren't we presuming that date of hire will likely provide a seniority windfall for U employees?

Don't unions look at the distribution first and make a proposal after seeing the choke points and the consequences?

 

[700UW]

The US/PI/PS mergers were all done dovetail, it is the only true and fair way.

Like I said, the IAM and probably AFA and ALPA all have the LPPs that protect integration.

 

[Mike]

Just some food for thought: right now the average USAirways Pilot is 53-55 years old. That's over 2500 pilots retiring in the next five or so years. (If the age 65 rule does not happen) Good luck to us all.

 

[PITbull]

Given that the greatest roadblock for a US/HP merger is on the labor front, I thought it would be a good idea for everyone in the know to post here their ideas on how to get it all done without angering too many folks. Let's discuss the pros and cons of each way of merging the seniority lists, protecting the little guys from being squashed, and finding a way overall to get it all to work.

I believe that should it be approved, a merger between HP and US would be a positive and not a negative. It would create a carrier that has at least a CHANCE of standing up to WN, who is the single biggest threat to all other carriers in the US. It would create a fine route network, one to rival even the largest of carriers. The list of good things is long, but so is the list of problems with making it all work. So let's get some ideas from out there... 

[post="264451"][/post]​

Its DOH for AFA as well. No getting around this...only 1 idea that I can offer...

Since there are still many of our ranks that want to leave but were not eligible for the VFLR because their seniority couldn't hold it...

Allow an open Furlough for the f/as of U, as many as want to leave, even if there were so many that U had to evenutally hire off the street. THis was the intent of the VFLR...but the company did not end up negotiating it that way. Why, cause they have absolutely no forward thinking...zip, natta, zero, zilch.
HP has new hiree f/as from 2005, while we have furloughed f/as from 2001 hire date. Our most junior INVOL is senior to some HP active f/as.

Not a good recipe for morale for HP. AFA of U has f/as on furlough who are senior to the new hiree f/as of HP. Company will have to incentivize the f/as who are still on the fence.

Here's hoping for the best...in all situations.

 

[Headhunter]

Oh, and senior
management of HP should take control with US senior
VP's and Directors kicked to the curb.

[post="264472"][/post]​

As long as it's just the senior VPs, VPs, and Directors. Don't forget that there are the little people underneath them - i.e., managers, senior analysts, analysts, admins - who are actually smart, do real work and have great ideas, and are willing to move. These little people shouldn't be guilty by association, and hopefully there will be a place for most, if not all, headquarters-type employees, no matter where that will be.

 

[Bear96]

It will be AA/TW all over again.

The relatively more senior U employees will want to "dovetail," a sweet and innocent sounding name for keeping all their seniority (date of hire and/or date in classification). They will be the equivalent of TW in this fight. You all ready see the self-righteous 700UW over here talking about how that is the "one, true way."

The relatively more junior HP employees will want a staple job. They will be the equivalent of AA in this fight.

Most likely this won't even matter. HP would be CRAZY to do any type of actual merger. U is a drowning man right now looking for someone -- anyone -- as a white knight to grab onto. (Again like TW was.)

If i t is some sort of actual merger where seniority integrations will become an issue, remember that if everyone doesn't feel screwed in the end, someone got a windfall. (Case in point, the AA-ers felt like they did pretty well in their deal.) If some group doesn't feel totally screwed, they probably got away with something.

Conversely, if everyone feels screwed when all is said and done, it was probably done as fairly as possible.

Good luck!

 

[NAPAUS]

Its DOH for AFA as well. No getting around this...only 1 idea that I can offer...

Since there are still many of our ranks that want to leave but were not eligible for the VFLR because their seniority couldn't hold it...

Allow an open Furlough for the f/as of U, as many as want to leave, even if there were so many that U had to evenutally hire off the street. THis was the intent of the VFLR...but the company did not end up negotiating it that way. Why, cause they have absolutely no forward thinking...zip, natta, zero, zilch.
HP has new hiree f/as from 2005, while we have furloughed f/as from 2001 hire date. Our most junior INVOL is senior to some HP active f/as.

Not a good recipe for morale for HP. AFA of U has f/as on furlough who are senior to the new hiree f/as of HP. Company will have to incentivize the f/as who are still on the fence.

Here's hoping for the best...in all situations.

[post="264483"][/post]​

Pitbull, u are right on the money!! The best thing to happen to many US f/as is the ability leave with something ( as little as it is ) ! I am one of them leaving in DEC and hoping the best, sincerely, for everyone left at US! US f/as will be at a loss without the likes of YOU in the their ranks!