The View From A Scab Who Left!

[delldude]

You say you took voluntary severance at U? No such thing was offered at NWA.

Still think the situations at NWA and U are the same? Like I said before, we had our contract vote in the strike vote and we overwhelmingly rejected it.

[post="294816"][/post]​

so where do you go from here?
i still think they want to rid themselves of you guys....time will tell.
you got a take it or leave it and you guys have the stones to walk.
only i feel it is much too late in the game for these manuevers.....
should have hit you guys first then u and ual....maybe things would be different today.

 

[NWA/AMT]

It's always someone else's fault. That's an easy out. It's not me, it's not me! Now, this is an honest question: When there was a downturn in the airline business after 9/11 or the SARS outbreak, did the union go to NWA and say "What can we do?" or "How can we make the best of this situation?" Did the union members go to union leadership to suggest that they do more or do something to help the airline? What about when the LCC's came into the market, as a result of the high fixed costs the legacy airlines have? Did you say "What can we do to help keep our great airline alive?"

[post="294803"][/post]​

They did that in 1993 and got screwed. NWA STILL hasn't made good on their promises from that last round of concessions and you expect the employees to volunteer for more?

When times are good, everything is great. As soon as things get tough, the working man just blames the EVIL MAN. It's always a conspiracy.

As soon as times get tough, your "EVIL MAN" immediately blames the working man and claims that they and their evil lazy unions are killing his company despite the fact that contracts have signatures from both parties.

You can fight until the end, but bottom line is you are going to lose. There is no win here. You don't win if NWA fails. The only way you win is if you take control of your life, instead of just following the direction of some union boss that probably cares for you about as much as company management does, and make a positive change for yourself.

I don't know which movie you are getting your image of some powerful "union boss" from, but nothing could be further from the truth with AMFA. We're not following Dell's direction, he's following ours - directions we gave him through the ballot box - and I can guarantee that he cares a lot more for the average NWA employee than Doug Steenland does. He's proven it many times.

You say we should "take control of your life"? That's exactly what this strike is for us. Rather than be coerced into a contract that is essentially suicide, we chose to say "No" and no matter what happens I don't and won't regret that decision.

 

[Bob Owens]

Far from it. Everyone realized the full implications of the NWA proposals:

To date they have cut 47% of the maintenance workforce.

They now demand a further 53%, or half of those who are left, bringing the total to 75% overall.

For the remaining 25% of the original workforce, they wish to remove most of the contract language that offers any job security, replacing it with a watered-down "job protection" letter that contains more 'force majeur' exceptions than job protections.

The "job protection" offer from NWA covers only people, not positions. In other words, through attrition NWA mechanics would be eliminated. They have clearly stated that recall of furloughed mechanics is not going to happen as people retire or quit.

You say you took voluntary severance at U? No such thing was offered at NWA.

Still think the situations at NWA and U are the same? Like I said before, we had our contract vote in the strike vote and we overwhelmingly rejected it.

[post="294816"][/post]​

Steenlands plan to outsource all maintenace will be as successful for NWA as it was for Peoples Express, (otherwise known as Peoples Distress).

Peoples Express contracted out all their maintenace to Butler Aviation. Butler in turn hired kids out of school who knew nothing. They were there to get experience and move on. In a few short years they managed to crash one airplane while doing a high speed taxi because the tail was in the full nose up position. They bent another plane in half by jacking it incorrectly, and had another one roll into a ditch because it was not chocked properly. Plus loads of other incidences, it must have been an exciting place to work, a daily disaster. Basically Peoples Express was where mechanics learned to work on airplanes without the supervision and guidance of older more experienced mechanics, but they were cheap. And the high turnover kept things from ever getting better. The learning curve was no curve, it stayed at point "a".

By the time all this becomes apparent Steeland will be long gone with all his millions and NWA will be headed to the same fate as Peoples Express.

 

[NWA/AMT]

so where do you go from here?

[post="294832"][/post]​

While everyone in the media wants to declare victory for NWA after a week and a half, we know that the effects of a mechanic strike are not as immediate as those of a pilot strike, particularly not when the company is prepared. Yet, NWA didn't fill all the scab positions they offered and the attrition rate for the scabs is pretty high this week.

They can present whatever face to the media that they wish - advertising dollars apparently impart a certain credibility - but we know that weather cancellations don't get towed to the hangar and sit around for two days with the cowling open without being worked on by the same guy twice when things are running smoothly.

Meanwhile the company has ratcheted up the pressure on the strikers, particularly those of the Avionics persuasion, to come back, after telling everyone last week they didn't need us and didn't want us.

Where we go from here is back to the picket line.

i still think they want to rid themselves of you guys....

I'd say if a proposal that reduces the headcount by 75% then puts a 'sunset' date on all the other positions is your "best offer", this is pretty much a given.

you got a take it or leave it and you guys have the stones to walk.
only i feel it is much too late in the game for these manuevers.....

It was one of the easiest votes I ever cast, You misunderstand the situation if you feel these are some sort of 'manuvers'; we said "no" and we meant it. Nobody from AMFA was saying the company didn't need cost savings but when they refused to discuss the means to achieve that savings the manuvers ended.

should have hit you guys first then u and ual....maybe things would be different today.

Maybe, but before we start comparing the NWA situation to U and UAL, I'd first need to know what percentage of the mechanics employed there on 10SEP01 are there now and what job protections they have in place.

 

[Kev3188]

Meanwhile the company has ratcheted up the pressure on the strikers, particularly those of the Avionics persuasion, to come back, after telling everyone last week they didn't need us and didn't want us.

[post="294848"][/post]​

How so?

 

[delldude]

Maybe, but before we start comparing the NWA situation to U and UAL, I'd first need to know what percentage of the mechanics employed there on 10SEP01 are there now and what job protections they have in place.

[post="294848"][/post]​

around 6000 9/10/01 down around 2400 now(mechs)...was 7-8000 at one time (m&r )
accrue seniority for 5 yrs then on continuos furlough status....

 

[NWA/AMT]

How so?

[post="294860"][/post]​

The aforementioned media blitz for one, phone calls from managers to some asking them to come back "to help me out", threats of termination, attempts to recall previously laid off members.

 

[NWA/AMT]

around 6000 9/10/01 down around 2400 now(mechs)...was 7-8000 at one time (m&r )
accrue seniority for 5 yrs then on continuos furlough status....

[post="294868"][/post]​

Around 8700 on 8/10/01 and 4611 on 8/19/05 through force majeur cuts. Company wants 2470 on date of signing. Fleet remains above 400 aircraft.

Pre-strike contract: retain and accrue for five years then.....nothing. Company wants: "then.......nothing".

 

[eolesen]

I think NWA AMFA mechs voted 92% to strike the carrier. So they actually did have the chance.

Point of order....

92% of the NWA AMFA mechs who voted voted to strike.

Last I knew, AMFA has yet to release the number who actually voted, so just how many people "striking" actually voted to strike?

Certainly, the ones who didn't vote made a choice not to have a say in whetherr or not they struck, but perhaps a good number of those expected to see the final offer before walking, as opposed to Dell and McFarlane making the decision not to put it to a member vote.

 

[NWA/AMT]

Point of order....

[post="294979"][/post]​

As you have chosen to repeat, almost verbatim, the allegations you made recently in another thread, allow me to repeat, verbatim, my answers:

92% of the NWA AMFA mechs who voted voted to strike.

Last I knew, AMFA has yet to release the number who actually voted, so just how many people "striking" actually voted to strike?

I do not have a link to the turnout numbers but one of the election observers reported at our local meeting that the turnout was almost 100%. I assure you that outside of Jeff Doerr and a few other IAM die hards, I have heard no NWA mechanics say they voted against it or question the decision not to ask the majority of the members to vote themselves out of a job and out of any hope of recall.

Certainly, the ones who didn't vote made a choice not to have a say in whetherr or not they struck, but perhaps a good number of those expected to see the final offer before walking, as opposed to Dell and McFarlane making the decision not to put it to a member vote.

I'd be interested to hear where you came by that information, as it in no way reflects the actual process used.

The AMFA negotiating team, made up of people who were neither Dell or MacFarlane but elected AMFA representatives from across the country, recommended to the National Executive Council (NEC) that further negotiations were unlikely to produce an agreement. With the results of the NWA strike vote in hand, the NEC voted to have the National Director declare a strike. Exactly the process as written in the AMFA constitution.

You may, as those who wish to cause dissension on the picket lines seem to be doing, continue to bemoan the lack of a vote on the company's last offer, but in light of the fact that the company offer had not changed since the strike vote, I can assure you it would have been rejected.

 

[WNJETFIXER]

Certainly, the ones who didn't vote made a choice not to have a say in whetherr or not they struck, but perhaps a good number of those expected to see the final offer before walking, as opposed to Dell and McFarlane making the decision not to put it to a member vote.

[post="294979"][/post]​

Dell nor McFarlane do not make decisions, they are there just to advise. The AMFA Membership elects members by majority rule to negotiate with the company. That's what makes it diffrent from other unions. When we were represented by the Teamsters, they had a bunch of MEATHEADS negotiating with the company. We had no say in the matter. As for the members who didn't vote whether to strike or not, that's their problem. If you do not take time to come out and vote on a matter then you have no say in what happens. And why would they bring back a T/A that the members didn't want? Just to say they voted on it??? That's silly!! The members had already told the negotiators what they would except before hand. Obviously it couldn't be reached and you know the rest. :down:

 

[eolesen]

I agree that the mechanics who didn't vote gave up their right to complain. If it was the landslide you say it was, why isn't AMFA releasing the actual number of how many voted?

I'm sure some locals probably did vote close to 100%, but one local doesn't always represent an accurate benchmark of the bigger picture, much like you can't predict a presidential election based on 50% or even 80% of all precincts reporting.

92% of 55% eligible isn't nearly the same mandate as 92% of 90% eligible.

 

[WNJETFIXER]

I agree that the mechanics who didn't vote gave up their right to complain. If it was the landslide you say it was, why isn't AMFA releasing the actual number of how many voted?

I'm sure some locals probably did vote close to 100%, but one local doesn't always represent an accurate benchmark of the bigger picture, much like you can't predict a presidential election based on 50% or even 80% of all precincts reporting.

92% of 55% eligible isn't nearly the same mandate as 92% of 90% eligible.

[post="295037"][/post]​

AMFA National should have released them. It's a matter of finding them. Usually all of the locals post results on their Web Sites. Have you checked any sites?? ie..
amfa32.com, amfa11.com etc...

 

[delldude]

NWA/AMT:
curious.....your plight doesn't recieve much, if any copy in the Pittsburgh area.i am interested in knowing what has been the relationship between NWA and AMFA.?has it been cordial or antagonistic?
just curious if there is some type vendetta against AMFA.

 

[Saturdaynite]

NWA/AMT:
curious.....your plight doesn't recieve much, if any copy in the Pittsburgh area.i am interested in knowing what has been the relationship between NWA and AMFA.?has it been cordial or antagonistic?
just curious if there is some type vendetta against AMFA.

[post="295051"][/post]​

dell,

nw does not have a vendetta. They are not prejudiced. They hate all their employees equally !

SN 😛h34r: