Time for Line Stations to break away.

[Hopeful]

I think it is hight time for the line stations to get separate contracts and let the chips fall where they will.
Since Burchette and company only care about TULSA, so be it.

If they believe that TULSA is the backbone of this company and Burchette continues to ignore the plight of the high cost of living line station area, then let him take his beloved TULSA and negotiate on its own merits.

Let the line stations negotiate on our merits.
It is nice that TULSA can bring in $500 million in contract work, but it is the line stations that bring in $BILLIONS in revenue.

Whatya say TULSA? "LET MY PEOPLE GO"

 

[Boomer]

I think it is hight time for the line stations to get separate contracts and let the chips fall where they will.
Since Burchette and company only care about TULSA, so be it.

If they believe that TULSA is the backbone of this company and Burchette continues to ignore the plight of the high cost of living line station area, then let him take his beloved TULSA and negotiate on its own merits.

Let the line stations negotiate on our merits.
It is nice that TULSA can bring in $500 million in contract work, but it is the line stations that bring in $BILLIONS in revenue.

Whatya say TULSA? "LET MY PEOPLE GO"

Nice sentiment, never gonna happen.

Three Reasons:
1) Why would AA give up the leverage of AFW/MCIE/TUL running the TWU? It's one-stop shopping, saves time and effort.
2) Why would AFW/MCIE/TUL vote to allow separate Line Overhaul contracts and give up the leverage that makes both the TWU and AA give them what they want?
3) Why would the TWU allow any vote at all given the ability to deliver to AA anything AA wants by keeping us all lumped together? The paid UB time and build up of those AA Pensions is not lost on those that continue to get it.

 

[FWAAA]

Wouldn't the higher-cost-of-living line maintenance guys like Bob Owens (JFK) and Ken MacTiernan (SAN) still be screwed because of the lower-cost-of-living guys in MIA, ORD and DFW? Houses (and everything else) in those three areas are much cheaper than in LAX, BOS, NYC, SAN and SFO.

It makes sense for employees in ultra-high-cost places to make more money than those in lower cost areas. But will union "brothers" ever permit such "inequity?"

 

[Wretched Wrench]

The TWU only allows symbolic elections, like local officers. They will not allow elections on this matter.

 

[AMFAMAN]

It makes sense for employees in ultra-high-cost places to make more money than those in lower cost areas. But will union "brothers" ever permit such "inequity?"

After the past years layoffs and many lower cost of living AMT's being bumped to the higher cost areas, I'm sure the line AMT's would vote for a COLA. In addition to the layoffs, you also have to take in account that many AMT's in the lower cost areas are not there because they want to, they are there in order to survive. I know, I'm one of them. 😉

BTW...this would never be allowed to be voted on, as the twu intl would see to it.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Wouldn't the higher-cost-of-living line maintenance guys like Bob Owens (JFK) and Ken MacTiernan (SAN) still be screwed because of the lower-cost-of-living guys in MIA, ORD and DFW? Houses (and everything else) in those three areas are much cheaper than in LAX, BOS, NYC, SAN and SFO.

It makes sense for employees in ultra-high-cost places to make more money than those in lower cost areas. But will union "brothers" ever permit such "inequity?"

To answer your question FWAAA... No.

Why? It is simple. The Line Stations, even those whose costs are lower than other Line Stations, are always going to be higher than Tulsa.

The Line Stations will not call "roll call votes" like Tulsa does. The Line Stations will act in unison to protect Line Stations. Unlike burchette who hides behind the excuse that he is fighting for his membership the Line Stations will actually care about other Line Stations. You see, burchette cares about nothing but warming his hands in the company's pockets.

I support Tulsa AMTs and would hope that we could all belong to the same contract. But with mentalities like burchette's and others who would shrivel up and die if they were ever removed from the teat of the twu cip of greed the only viable option for Line AMTs is to break away and have our own contract. If anything, that would enable burchette to bury his hands deeper into the company's pockets all the way down to their socks.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ---- Something else to keep in mind. TUL, AFW, and yes, MCIE, need the line stations! If they would break away, as you suggest, it would only be one short step in making the Overhaul Bases into full fledged MRO's! Wages, and, lack of benefits and all!!! Adding COLA clauses to a Contract should be no big deal! (Oh boy! I hate to say this, but!) TWA had them in their contract years ago!---- 😉

 

[Bob Owens]

Wouldn't the higher-cost-of-living line maintenance guys like Bob Owens (JFK) and Ken MacTiernan (SAN) still be screwed because of the lower-cost-of-living guys in MIA, ORD and DFW? Houses (and everything else) in those three areas are much cheaper than in LAX, BOS, NYC, SAN and SFO.

No they would not. Historically even stations like MIA, ORD and DFW have a high percentage of "No" votes to concessionary contracts. The company and the International bank on Tulsa passing the vote and in the past made deals to keep the operation running on the line.

In 1995 the concessionary contract only passed by around 70 votes, taken seperately it was an overwhelming "NO" from the line stations.

In 2003 the concesionary contract passed by only 700 votes, it was overwhelmingly rejected by the line stations, in fact if you take out MCI it would have been rejected.

It makes sense for employees in ultra-high-cost places to make more money than those in lower cost areas. But will union "brothers" ever permit such "inequity?"

The inequity is in not having a substantial compensation differential between Oh and the line.For the majority of OH their airline job is like any other 9 to 5 job with weekends and holidays off. Their job does not require the same personal sacrifices that are required of most airline workers. The problem has more to do with the caliber of leadership out of these bases than the content of the membership. The majority of members in OH probably would not object to a COLA.

 

[Bob Owens]

Nice sentiment, never gonna happen.

Three Reasons:
1) Why would AA give up the leverage of AFW/MCIE/TUL running the TWU? It's one-stop shopping, saves time and effort.
2) Why would AFW/MCIE/TUL vote to allow separate Line Overhaul contracts and give up the leverage that makes both the TWU and AA give them what they want?
3) Why would the TWU allow any vote at all given the ability to deliver to AA anything AA wants by keeping us all lumped together? The paid UB time and build up of those AA Pensions is not lost on those that continue to get it.

Never say never.

The mechanics wanted seperate locals. The majority of the members and all the local officers opposed it, the International put it in place because they feared an AMFA vote and they wanted to bust up some of the larger locals such as 501 because they were trying to gain more authority over the contract and confronting the International.


If the line mechanics demand a seperate contract and are denied their recourse would be to create intolerable conditions for the company where they work. A systemwide repeat of the 1998? JFK reaction to the hard copy incident would have to take place. The company would take their beloved TWU to court, the court would threaten the TWU with fines. The mechanics would then have to continue to write and write and write until they get what they want.

It could be done, its worth the attempt.What do you have to lose?

 

[Wretched Wrench]

The mechanics wanted seperate locals. The majority of the members and all the local officers opposed it, the International put it in place because they feared an AMFA vote

Yup. That same AMFA threat also got us a big raise. We even caught back up to the consumer price index increases for the previous 18 year.

But the AMFA threat seems to be gone. AA now has the equivalent of a Yellow Dog contract.

 

[Bob Owens]

Yup. That same AMFA threat also got us a big raise. We even caught back up to the consumer price index increases for the previous 18 year.

But the AMFA threat seems to be gone. AA now has the equivalent of a Yellow Dog contract.

2001 was in reality an AMFA contract, I call it "the Amfa spike", in 2003 we were put back on the TWU/AA trajectory, just look at the graph of Mechanics pay vs CPI and you can see it for yourself.

 

[Boomer]

Never say never.

The mechanics wanted seperate locals. The majority of the members and all the local officers opposed it, the International put it in place because they feared an AMFA vote and they wanted to bust up some of the larger locals such as 501 because they were trying to gain more authority over the contract and confronting the International.
If the line mechanics demand a seperate contract and are denied their recourse would be to create intolerable conditions for the company where they work. A systemwide repeat of the 1998? JFK reaction to the hard copy incident would have to take place. The company would take their beloved TWU to court, the court would threaten the TWU with fines. The mechanics would then have to continue to write and write and write until they get what they want.

It could be done, its worth the attempt.What do you have to lose?

The biggest problem to forcing a repeat of the Maint. Local "Gang of Eight" is that the Gang are now the establishment, having been to a large degree successfuly co-opted by either AA or the TWU International or both.

Now, if you can take the page from "Leading Organizational Change," and reconstitute a group of opinion leaders from the Line you could recreate the momentum but the end game has sustained serious political damage due to the scab actions of unions like the IAM undercutting the change agent; AMFA.

I completely agree that it is worth doing if you plan to stay; but, if you plan on moving on, you would be better served by expending the energy on managing the transition out of the industry.

 

[Bob Owens]

The biggest problem to forcing a repeat of the Maint. Local "Gang of Eight" is that the Gang are now the establishment, having been to a large degree successfuly co-opted by either AA or the TWU International or both.

I dont think we are referring to the same thing here. The Hard Copy incident triggered a spontaneous job action at JFK. Management went crazy trying to crush the uprising and maintain the illusion that they had control. They flew in supervision from as far away as LAX in an attempt to birddog every single mechanic on duty. In the meantime the TWU ran interferance by speading misinformation to prevent it from spreading to other stations.

The incident suprised the mechanics themselves, until then they never realized what power they had.

Now, if you can take the page from "Leading Organizational Change," and reconstitute a group of opinion leaders from the Line you could recreate the momentum but the end game has sustained serious political damage due to the scab actions of unions like the IAM undercutting the change agent; AMFA.

The damage to AMFA is temporary. As time goes by more people will realize that the events at NWA were for industrywide worker consumption rather than sound business strategy for NWA. Part of a broader government/industrywide effort to lower airline worker expectations. If they were that desperate to expend so much to go after AMFA it means they were terrified of the thought of continued expansion of AMFA. If they dont want it then we should.

I completely agree that it is worth doing if you plan to stay; but, if you plan on moving on, you would be better served by expending the energy on managing the transition out of the industry.

Well, as long as we are here we should do what we can.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Wouldn't the higher-cost-of-living line maintenance guys like Bob Owens (JFK) and Ken MacTiernan (SAN) still be screwed because of the lower-cost-of-living guys in MIA, ORD and DFW? Houses (and everything else) in those three areas are much cheaper than in LAX, BOS, NYC, SAN and SFO.

It makes sense for employees in ultra-high-cost places to make more money than those in lower cost areas. But will union "brothers" ever permit such "inequity?"

Last time I checked the COLA website MIA has outpaced NYC in terms of COLA

:down:

http://swz.salary.com/costoflivingwizard/l...p;x=35&y=13

 

[MCI transplant]

No they would not. Historically even stations like MIA, ORD and DFW have a high percentage of "No" votes to concessionary contracts. The company and the International bank on Tulsa passing the vote and in the past made deals to keep the operation running on the line.

In 1995 the concessionary contract only passed by around 70 votes, taken seperately it was an overwhelming "NO" from the line stations.

In 2003 the concesionary contract passed by only 700 votes, it was overwhelmingly rejected by the line stations, in fact if you take out MCI it would have been rejected.
The inequity is in not having a substantial compensation differential between Oh and the line.For the majority of OH their airline job is like any other 9 to 5 job with weekends and holidays off. Their job does not require the same personal sacrifices that are required of most airline workers. The problem has more to do with the caliber of leadership out of these bases than the content of the membership. The majority of members in OH probably would not object to a COLA.

<_< ---- Bob, I personally don't have any problem with COLA, and I don't believe anyone here at MCI would. But from what I've seem of the "Me first" attitude of the boys from TUL, you may have a problem! I can hear it now! "Why should they have something we don't?" ---- 😉