Top Ten Reasons to Vote NO

[TWU informer]

NOTICE:

an idiot is a stupid person with a mental age below three years, while a moron is a stupid person with a mental age of between seven to twelve years

 

[Frank Szabo]

There is nothing positive about letting the judge decide our fate no matter how others here may spin it. If you have any common sense at all, you will vote yes. Don't let your ego get in the way. Think logically and vote YES. You still have time to do the right thing.

Yep - vote yes and abandon any principles you claim to have.

Principles are all about what one will do when nobody is watching and following a path that may not be popular - in the case of one individual, he pissed of the priests of his religion so badly they had the Romans kill him - that's what principles are all about. They are not popular with the people in charge. Following an ethos almost never is the easy way out of any situation and sometimes exacts a personal cost for being "true unto onesself".

Principles do not entail giving up because something ensuing may be unpleasant nor do the same principles allow one to spread BS and lies per the company and their union.

It's a sorry situation to see many willing to take this POS contract simply because they haven't anyplace else to go nor have any skills other than what Airframe and Powerplant certifications have conferred upon them - that is no substitute for principles in life.

 

[Strake]

If it made sense to vote no, I would and have in the past. To vote no, now, is IMHO just plain stupid. Either way we're screwed. It's a tough call but given two choices, bad or worse, I choose bad. It's like given the choice between a shotgun and a .22 to shoot your foot with and you have to shoot your foot. I'll take my chances with the .22. Pretty simple call.

 

[Strake]

Principles, vote your principles, thats admirable! If you want to screw yourself in the process thats fine. In fact you should do that every chance you get. However, In this case, you're willing to screw a lot of other people with your lofty, but misguided views. If we were in a position of power, I could see your point. The truth is, we're not.

 

[Tex-Mech]

If it made sense to vote no, I would and have in the past. To vote no, now, is IMHO just plain stupid. Either way we're screwed. It's a tough call but given two choices, bad or worse, I choose bad. It's like given the choice between a shotgun and a .22 to shoot your foot with and you have to shoot your foot. I'll take my chances with the .22. Pretty simple call.

You do realize that the 1113c 14 day negotiations have not taken place yet? But yet you are shooting yourself in the foot before the fight even begins. Kind of like the soldier that shoots his foot in order to get sent home and get out of fighting the war.

 

[Strake]

That didn't come out right, I meant you should vote your principles, not the other.

 

[Frank Szabo]

That didn't come out right, I meant you should vote your principles, not the other.

Something tells me your original post was closer to target.

 

[Buck]

Priniples, vote your priniples, thats admirable! If you want to screw yourself in the process thats fine. In fact you should do that every chance you get. However, In this case, you're willing to screw a lot of other people with your lofty, but misguided views. If we were in a position of power, I could see your point. The truth is, we're not.

Your spell checker is failing.

The question remains, how did you get to the point of having to shoot your foot?

The TWU's method has been screwing the membership for years.

Now your yes vote somewhere in your mind is saving jobs at a financial cost to the rest of the membership and all mechanics throughout
the industry.

What will the TWU achieve with a passage of this LBO?

 

[Rogallo]

That didn't come out right, I meant you should vote your principles, not the other.

"Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt"?

 

[TWU informer]

If it made sense to vote no, I would and have in the past. To vote no, now, is IMHO just plain stupid. Either way we're screwed. It's a tough call but given two choices, bad or worse, I choose bad. It's like given the choice between a shotgun and a .22 to shoot your foot with and you have to shoot your foot. I'll take my chances with the .22. Pretty simple call.

WTF?

you must be one of the reasons we are attending work place violence training.

We are not shooting our own or anyone elses foot with any firearm.

We are voting yes or no on the conditions of work regarding pay, benefits, and work rules.

Hardly comparable to firearms and/or destruction or mutilation of body parts.

Unreal, how much fear you have in your mind.

You really should consider getting some assistance from the E.A.P.
Better yet, seek some form of spiritual enlightment training and stop living in misery and fear.

 

[Frank Szabo]

... snip

- terrorism of body parts -

... snip

[sharedmedia=core:attachments:9458]

 

[olderguyAMT]

Your spell checker is failing.

The question remains, how did you get to the point of having to shoot your foot?

The TWU's method has been screwing the membership for years.

Now your yes vote somewhere in your mind is saving jobs at a financial cost to the rest of the membership and all mechanics throughout
the industry.

What will the TWU achieve with a passage of this LBO?

Buck, the answer to that is easy.

The start of a strong AMFA card drive.
As the TWU shoots itself in the foot.

 

[Frank Szabo]

Buck, the answer to that is easy.

The start of a strong AMFA card drive.
As the TWU shoots itself in the foot.

Dammit, people - we cannot have any mention of violence on a website monitored by HR, even figuratively, as the gentle people who read this may become offended (and not by BO).

Far better would be warning those who would get wet playing with a water "pump" not to fiddle with adult toys due to the chance of an inadvertant injection of a metallic substance.

Ain't the language grand?

 

[FWAAA]

FWAAA: are the labor cost savings broken down between the three major union groups?

Then with the mechanics at the lowest in the industry, how can lowering their cost help the airline ?

The term sheets proposed the following savings from each work group:

APA: $370 million
APFA: $230 million
TWU: $159 million (fleet, dispatch, instructors, sim techs)
TWU: $235 million (M&R, stock clerks, MCTs)

AA says that the above numbers represent 20% of the total labor cost of each workgroup and the numbers total $994 million. The other $256 million of the $1.25 billion will come from management, support staff and agents.

AA's mechanics may be paid the lowest hourly wage of any airline, but AA's maintenance costs are the highest, according to DOT numbers, because of the low level of outsourcing. For example, WN has 700 planes and just 3,500 maintenance personnel on the payroll. I don't know what Aeroman in El Salvador charges WN for a heavy C check on their 737s, but with the mechanics making a reported $5/hr and the helpers making a reported $2/hr, it's obvious that it's cheaper. Significantly cheaper.

 

[FWAAA]

Who took more? We gave up different things but our compensation was slashed by at least 25%.

Not really, we gave up things that others didnt lose in BK that more than covered the cost of thye pension such as Vacation, Holidays, sick time, doubletime, straight time pay for training off shift etc. I'll tell who benefitted by AA not filing in 2003, that banks that owned the planes that AA didnt fly but were still paying leases, the banks that owned the bonds on airport facilities that AA was paying for but did not use.

Too rich? we would have still been at the bottom of the industry with the laest amount of Vacation, Holidays and sick time.

Bob, as usual, my post (as is obvious from reading it) was about AA's overall labor costs, and not the specifics of the M&R portion of its labor costs. The employees of US, UA, DL, NW and CO gave up, overall, a lot more in bankruptcy, and thus lowered their labor cost per ASM to a number lower than AA's labor cost per ASM.

Yes, your wages are too low - I've posted that maybe 100 times or more. Because of the slavish devotion to in-house overhaul under Arpey's reign, however, AA's maintenance costs are the highest in the industry. Just like at US, UA, DL, NW and CO, AA will no longer perform every heavy check in-house. Some of them will be outsourced.

As I posted the other day: if you want WN wages, then replace the worthless union and then the negotiators for your new union should present AA management with the WN contract, verbatim, and offer to adopt the WN contract.