Trouble in 777 Overhaul (China)

[700UW]

So employees who dont want to join the union should get a free ride?

Thats wrong, even under the NLRA (which doesnt apply to airline workers), the union has to represent employees who arent members, how is that fair?

And they pay no dues at all.

 

[737823]

So employees who dont want to join the union should get a free ride?

Thats wrong, even under the NLRA (which doesnt apply to airline workers), the union has to represent employees who arent members, how is that fair?

And they pay no dues at all.

It's completely fair because the union is imposed on people who don't want it. Even if a majority of a workgroup elects to join a union, I believe people that wish to not join the union should not have the union and dues imposed (even partially as a dues objector). Right to work is fair and equatable for workers, it put the onus on the union to show it creates value for the workers.

Josh

 

[700UW]

Do you know how to read and comprehend?

Joining the union is a known condition of employment in a closed shop, its not hidden from the prospective employee. That's why they can become a non-member and pay for what's germane to the CBA and enforcing it and negotiating it and its audited every year by the DOL.

Right to Work (for less) cost workers money and you completely ignored the fact that open shops under the NRLA where an employee chooses not be in the union nor pay dues, the union still has to spend funds and represent someone who pays nothing and even isnt a member.

Explain how that is fair?

http://crooksandliars.com/kenneth-quinnell/truth-about-right-work-less

 

[737823]

Are you that obtuse? Of course in a closed shop in a non-RTW state it is condition of employment that's precisely why it is unfair. It's even more unfair when an election takes places and union gets certified and is imposed on people who don't want a union. And the whole employee free choice act BS that the unions are pushing is anything but free choice. Explain to me how taking secret ballot elections and replacing them with public card check is fair and equitable? For all you and your IAM minions carried on during the DL interference that workers were afraid to be identified as union supporters, an open card check does the exact same thing.

Josh

 

[700UW]

State right to work for less laws do not apply to workers who are covered under the RLA, Federal Law trumps state law, are you that obtuse?

Better go read the investigation, the DOL how many times are you going to lie and spread misinformation?

From the DOL investigation:

"It is clear from the record before the Board that the IAM engaged in a vigorous campaign to convey its views. The IAM‘s campaign did not, however, step out of the bounds of allowable ―argument and electioneering‖ as described by Director Eastman above. The Carrier asserts that the IAM created an atmosphere of fear, and interrogated, attacked and retaliated against employees. The interviews with employees conducted by NMB investigators do not support these allegations. Some interviewed employees stated that they were not interested in receiving all or some of the information that the IAM was disseminating; some employees did not agree with the views expressed in IAM campaign material. Employees did not state in their interviews with NMB Investigators that they were coerced or intimidated by the IAM‘s communications or activities. Therefore, there no is basis for finding interference with regard to this allegation."

http://www.nmb.gov/r...2012/39n015.pdf

Keep trying and dont let the facts get in your way!

 

[737823]

State right to work for less laws do not apply to workers who are covered under the RLA, Federal Law trumps state law, are you that obtuse?

Duh, you were the one that shifted the conversation away from RLA to NLRA. And that's another injustice for workers, airline workers in otherwise RTW states have union representation imposed on them.

Josh

 

[700UW]

Glad to see you ignored the fact that you were caught in lies again, funny how you totally ignored you were proven wrong once again.

And once again, it is a known condition of employment, if you dont want to be in a union dont work for an airline that is unionized, and they have the right not to join and be a non-member, but the Supreme Court ruled, that since they are enjoying and partaking in the benefits of a CBA, they have to pay what is germane to enforce and negotiate the CBA. Beck vs CWA and Machinists vs Whirpool.

Once again, keep lying joshie and dont let the facts get in your way.

 

[737823]

Nah, I'll sit back and enjoy knowing union membership in the United States continues to decline, unions have less and less influence and relevance and all the union jobs that have been eliminated over the years.

Josh

 

[700UW]

Keep ignoring the facts that you lie, spread misinformation and cant even admit when your proven wrong.

The NMB proved Delta's accusations to be false.

 

[737823]

And they also upheld the elections results, dismissed the BS IAM interfernece claims too. Your boys lost fair and square, even after getting to call the election and have the rules changed to tilt it in your favor. Fortunately the DL workers don't wear your rose lenses and didn't want to touch the IAM with a ten foot pole.

Josh

 

[700UW]

I am not the one touting lies, like you are.

All the other union elections except the RLA were majority rules name one election that someone who doesnt vote is counted as a no?

And all unions who represent airline workers lobbied for the change, not just the IAM.

Once again, dont tell the the whole story.

 

[Kev3188]

What we saw in Wisconsin last year wasn't rooted in the fear of trampling on workers rights -- it was the fear of losing members and revenue...

No, it was an uprising against the suppression of free speech, and freedom of association. You had a governor who took a relatively small- and easily fixed- budget issue, used that to manufacture a crisis, which he then used as a means to impose an extreme ideology that no one asked for- and that he never bothered to mention during his campaign, either.

You think all of those 100K showing up on the capitol steps were labor leaders?

I know you know, but for those that don't, most of Act 10 has already been overturned for city, county, and school workers. Next stop is the Wi. Supreme Court.

... Fortunately the DL workers don't wear your rose lenses and didn't want to touch the IAM with a ten foot pole.

I suspect by this time next year we'll see if your theory is correct or not...

 

[Bob Owens]

It's completely fair because the union is imposed on people who don't want it. Even if a majority of a workgroup elects to join a union, I believe people that wish to not join the union should not have the union and dues imposed (even partially as a dues objector). Right to work is fair and equatable for workers, it put the onus on the union to show it creates value for the workers.

Josh

Really? Do you pay property taxes? If by majority vote something passes do you still have to pay? Don't like it? Move right? But you still don't have the right to not pay. When you moved to where you live you knew that you had to pay taxes to have the streets cleaned, garbage picked up etc etc even if you didn't want those services, you wanted to live there so you pay. Well when you join a Unionized shop, you knew that you had to pay your fair share there as well. Don't want what the union provides, go to a non-union shop or try and have it decertified, those are your rights. RTW is a scam, that would be like saying you don't have to pay your property taxes unless you want to. Unions are put in place by a vote of the members, when they voted they knew that once in, the union remained unless there was a vote to get rid of them, similar to how once a group of residents vote to incorporate a town that town stays in place until the residents by majority vote decide to liquidate. After incorporating the people elect representatives to run it, same thing in a union, they make motions and the residents vote on the motions, same in unions. But if you as a resident decide that you don't want the town to be incorporated you cant say "I don't agree with this so I'm not paying, and by the way you still have to clean my street and pick up my garbage. RTW laws allow people to choose to get the benefits without contributing, it legalizes theft. Its no different than if they passed a law that says you are entitled to all the services without paying for them simply because you do not want to.

 

[Kev3188]

I wonder how many people that champion RTW laws are aware of the racial underpinnings of their inception?

 

[Mach85ER]

Personally, from the pilot point of view, I'd rather go with an open shop and let the union live or die on it's merits and leadership.

In 2003, APA slipped the closed shop change into the 2003 fire sale. You now had to be a member or pay a "contract maintenance fee" which is around 60% of normal dues.

At that time, it was the final act in a recent history of self serving BS leadership and many would have quit.

Before then, the APA pilots enjoyed the highest percentage of membership of any pilot union, even higher than those with closed shops.

If a union's leadership sucks, they should fear losing their senior desk jobs and risk dissolving their union. I feel this (open shop) should apply to any union in the USA. IMHO. I've got a ###d-on for right wingers that think unions should be hindered or outlawed by any means. I've also got the same ###d-on for union members that don't want to deal with their crappy performance and want immunity in every case.

rant over, now everyone drive home safely. 😉