Trouble With Flaps On Landing

[PhillyFlyer]

Long time lurker, first time poster. I am curious if anyone can help me make sense of what happened to me on a recent flight.

I flew YUL-PHL last Sunday on US 2372. This was an express flight manned by PSA on a brand new CRJ-200. We were all set to land (ahaead of schedule) when the landing gear was unexpectedly brought back in. The captain came on and, in a calm voice, informed us that the flaps would only extend to 50% and that he needed to run a checklist before we could attempt to land again.

As you can imagine, the cabin became silent. Although the captain indicated that this was not a big deal, we had no idea what the ramification of the flaps issue were. About 15 minutes later, he came back on and informed us that we were going to make another approach and that we could expect a "relatively normal" landing. No bracing. No special instructions.

The landing was a bit hard, but it seemed to take longer for the plane to come to a complete stop. The cold sweats really started however when we saw 4 fire engines waiting for us on either side at the end of the runway. One of them actually followed us to our gate. We taxied to the gate for seemed like an eternity and deplaned uneventfully.

How big a deal was this?

 

[jetstewus]

If you landed without any sort of special instructions from the flight attendant, it probably wasn't a big deal. They likely had to declare an emergency and get the fire equipment out there just in case. I was on a flight where we had to land with more fuel than we normally would and had to declare an emergency with fire trucks because of that. It also took us a bit longer to stop but it was otherwise uneventful. I guess you could argue either way whether or not the pilots should have mentioned over the p.a. that you would see the trucks opon landing.

Any landing you can walk away from is a good one!

 

[Benz M-100]

Most likely a very minor deal that was poorly handled by the flight crew as far as telling the passengers what was going on. Some pilots are better at this aspect of flying than others. It doesn't reflect on their skills at actually handling the malfunction.

The fire engines are simply a precaution that is VERY rarely (pretty much NEVER) needed in situations such as this. Sort of a CYA if anything didn't go as it should in the alternate procedure.

A partial flap landing means landing at a higher than normal speed and usually not much else. Unless it is a very short runway (in which case a diversion may be advisable) it is NO big deal.

 

[PhillyFlyer]

To the uninitiated, it felt like a big deal, mostly because of the fire engines.

Had either the pilot or the FA warned us about their possible presence and explained the ramifications of the partially extended flaps, I probably would not have posted this thread.

Thanks for the explanations.

 

[ktflyhome]

PhillyFlyer: I am sorry you had a stressful flight. I would like to add, that occasionally, things are happening at the last minute and pilots are really busy up there, particularly if it is on approach. We have what is called the "Sterile Cockpit" when 3 bells are given. Time for F/A's to be in jumpseats, cabin cleared and everyone ready for landing. I would assume on the flight, had there been a "real" emergency, that the Pilots would have notified the F/A to be prepared and the passengers would have been informed.

I have an occasion had a time or two, when we aborted take-off and landing. We had no idea it was coming and the incidences did not warrent any notification from the Flight Deck. Of course we wanted to know what had happened when we landed. One time it was a flock of geese on the runway on approach, so we nosed up and went around again.

I generally find, that most Pilots these days do their best to keep passengers informed as well as F/A's. I feel certain, had this been a real problem, that the cabin would have been prepped for an emergency landing. As far as the fire trucks, it always best to be safe, than to be sorry.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Especially considering it doesn't cost anything to have them available. Why not?

 

[mweiss]

Well, that's not necessarily true. There are costs associated with having them available. What exactly they are depends on the particular airport. PSP, for example, shares the airport fire station with civilian Station #2. When the fire crew is on the taxiway, they cannot respond to civilian calls. Normally not a big deal, but it can be.

 

[ua767fo]

1) Most likely a very minor deal that was poorly handled by the flight crew as far as telling the passengers what was going on.


2) partial flap landing means landing at a higher than normal speed and usually not much else. ..

3) Unless it is a very short runway (in which case a diversion may be advisable) it is NO big deal.

1) As I see it, the Captain did an EXCELLANT job by keeping the passengers informed in a calm cool manner, and being open and honest. Nothing more need be said.


2 and 3) Not always so, this can be a very critical emergency depending on the aircraft type, gross weight, runway available, altitude, ect. As an example, a nearly grossed out 757 with an assymetric flap at Flaps (position)1 on takeoff can add 40 knots to the VRef speed, which will be high to start with due to high gross weight. Touchdown speeds can exceed 300 feet/second. Even if you burn off fuel for several hours, the speed wont drop all that much. The airplane tends to float upon landing, and a brake fire can potentially start during brake heat disipation. Very critical procedure.

DENVER, CO

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Well, that's not necessarily true. There are costs associated with having them available. What exactly they are depends on the particular airport. PSP, for example, shares the airport fire station with civilian Station #2. When the fire crew is on the taxiway, they cannot respond to civilian calls. Normally not a big deal, but it can be.

It would be a pretty lousy day in that neighborhood if for the 10 minutes the firetruck is on the taxiway it's needed somewhere else. Also, Airport fire equipment is generally ONLY used for airport situations, not local municipalities, and this is true in PHL. As a pilot, I know that if there is ANY chance, no matter how small, that the equipment MIGHT be helpful I ask for it. It would look pretty bad if you didn't and someone got hurt because of your oversight.
One more thing. If there were not available fire equipment I am SURE that the airport itself would have to close. There is a requirement to have crash and fire response at all commercial airports.

 

[Winglet]

How big a deal? Virtually a non-event. The rescue equipment is there as a precaution. The come out for even the most benign of "emergencies."

 

[mweiss]

Airport fire equipment is generally ONLY used for airport situations, not local municipalities, and this is true in PHL.

As it is in PSP. The equipment is airport only, but the firefighters are not. I'm not sure what happens when they're out on a civilian call and an emergency is called at the airport. Certainly they shouldn't be more than five minutes away, which is probably enough time to get the equipment out on the taxiway if needed.

 

[autofixer]

"Not a big deal?" This is why people feel pilots are overpaid. Any time an emergency is declared and the emergency proceedure is performed (and successfully I might add) it is a big deal. Pilots always try to reasure the public that flying is safe and so they always say, It was no big deal. Take credit for a job well done!