Tulsa's Money?
- Thread starter the cave
- Start date
T
The Goose
Guest
Considering there's nothing out there that, given time, wouldn't turn into the exact self-serving POS "representation we have now, what were your thoughts as to replacement representation? No union or association out there has lived up to its promises - rather, they've all been "near and below the call of duty" - it's not just the TWU - they're all fighting to survive and continue fleecing their respective memberships of dues for nothing in return while being an ally to the enemy of their memberships.
One must stop to consider the same people (if not in name, in attitude) gravitate to positions of "leadership" and would, in short order, have the works gummed up (to their benefit) as is the case now turning whatever outfit is newly installed into the same mess we have now.
It's certainly a nice thought but not very realistic.
The structural issue with any union today is whether or not the labor they are selling is priced at the market. If people in the USA or overseas are willing to sell the same quality labor service for less, then wages will stagnate. The only way to change this is to restrict competitors from entering the market thru protectionism or other barriers to market entry. This is never a long term sucessful growth strategy for any company/union in todays global market.
The best way is to argue is that your labor is more productive and therefore worth more vice "you owe me" since I used to make more "back in the day"
I hear that SW airlines mechanics get paid the most, but I hear they are the most productive because of their work rules, How many mechanics do they have per aircraft at the line stations?
Rather than argue about what you used to make - argue about how you provide the best deal for the money.
Goose is right....A different union name without a different approach will get the same result
ThirdSeatHero
Veteran
""...in the USA or overseas are willing to sell the same quality labor service for less..."""
And here in is the problem.......the truth is its NOT the same quality labor.
How do you measure this quality difference? It would be great if you could put a number on it. Eg reduced maint cnxs or something
ThirdSeatHero
Veteran
Well I could cite my personal experience. I began my carreer at UAL in heavy overhaul and I could compare and contrast the difference between now and then.
I could cite a recent example, widebody returns 3 days out of a vendor heavy overhaul, ALL fuel quantity gages blanking. Cause? A-L-L in tank harness bad, and 5 exterior Hi-Z lines' bad. Now just how does THAT get missed in an overhaul?
Or I could cite some common sense stuff concerning licensed vs unlicensed mechanics ratios at our vendors or perhaps the ratio of mechanics that can't even speak english at our vendors- maintenance manuals are in english.
Perhaps you could tell us how you've come to the conclusion that the quality of the maintenance is the same?
I take that back ...it looks like AA maintenance is not as good as the rest - save southwest. Check out this link
http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2010-02-02-airmaintenance02_VA_N.htm
AA is the second worst for collecting fines. Maybe they should start going by the book. So people want industry leading pay for industry leading fines????
AA has over $7M in fines while Delta had only $145 K
ThirdSeatHero
Veteran
Are you insinuating that this is the fault of the mechanics at AA?
eolesen
Veteran
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2003
- Messages
- 15,959
- Reaction score
- 9,375
Not at every vendor, but you can't deny that some are as high of quality, if not better, e.g. LH Technik. Germans tend to be quite detail oriented.... and they offer overhaul services.
The Foreigner
Member
Lufthansa Technik may or may not be good, but with a strong Euro I very much doubt that any US carrier will be sending their aircraft there to be worked.
The airlines that send their aircraft out for c and d checks seem to send them to places that have Very low labor costs. Like Hong Kong, like Haeco. Most vendors just do what the work cards say, and will not look at any other items, like replace a floorboard but not check for any corrosion, its not their aircraft and the workcard may not say to do it. So you get what you pay for ! Cheap labour cheap quality work.
ThirdSeatHero
Veteran
Perhaps, but LH Technik is more the exception to the rule.
I dont recall the name of the company but I recall packing our engines and putting them in special cradles so we could load them onto aircraft for OH somewhere over there. When they came back we thought they made a mistake and sent it back without doing the OH. Sometime in the 90s.
Once the contarct ran out we started sending them back to Tulsa again. Like I've said before, we get quality out of Tulsa. Sure you can get OH done cheaply elsewhere but you get what you pay for. How much do you save when you lose a trip?
AA89
Veteran
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2010
- Messages
- 690
- Reaction score
- 320
Having worked in corporate aviation and aircraft overhaul prior to AA, it is hard to imagine an MRO being any less productive than AA overhaul. Quality and productivity are all about accountability. Yes, AA has a great maintenance system, both overhaul and line. But this unions coddling of the lowest common denominator among us has in fact weakened us by removing all accountability as far as production. I doubt we are as productive compared to other MROs as we would like to think
How would you like to split the salary and benefits of the slug in your work area. You know the guy. He has been pissed off since he hired on about one thing or the other. His day is spent dreaming up another way to "stick it to the man" while his co-workers carry his load. He is the guy that blames the execs for taking bonuses, but he can't seem to realize that his beloved union signed the concessionary contract without a clause preventing the bonuses.
Well forget about it. This union cares more about saving the slug's job than it does about your wages and benefits.
Get rid of losers like this and we all get back what we gave up. Not the way a union works? Yeah, you're right. But it is the reason we are in the weak bargaining position we are in.
You're probably right. A union is a union. Sure woulda been nice to try AMFA though.
Well are you selling airline labor or MRO labor? They are different markets. MROs need to sell your labor to a carrier for a profit so they have to pay less than in house airline maintenance in order to compete with large carriers that have the volume of work to run continuous lines. The fact is if we are to just do AA work, and the dock plan is full to 2014 with AA work, there wont be much 3P work coming in no matter how little they charge.
We need to look at how much it would cost the company to send the work out, not what MROs pay their mechanics.
Sure as our mainline operation shrinks so will the number of employees. We all knew when we came into this industry that layoffs were common. AA has shrunk by 30% since 2001, the workforce has shrunk even more. Do those who havent been recalled want to get recalled to a job that has been stripped of the benifits and pay that we used to get? Well if New York is an indication of what the company can expect then the answer is NO. Over 90% of those offered recall back to NY said No. One of the few who did approached me and said he had a hard time coming back, he said he was willing to take a layoff if that was required to get the pay and benifits back because then he knew he had something to look forward to.
SWA mechanics the most productive? Is it because of the way the company is run or because of the contract? I dont think that if you compare line operations there is much of a disparity in workload and productivity, just in pay and benifits , especially when you factor out ETOPS and wide body staffing. Our contract doesnt have a staffing ratio for Aircraft Mechanics. The company determines how many mechaincs they need.
Similar threads
