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Tulsa's Money?

I agree Bob,

A few other things that need to be compared for accurate accounting.

How many levels of management and unproductive staff assistance does the MRO mechanic have to subsidize. Not that we don't need management just how much is enough.

How productive is the Overhaul work force.
(We have union issues and management failure issures in this area)

Is the Overhaul Maintenance looked at as a profit center instead of cost center thus capital investments are easier to come by than the bean counter of an airline unwilling to spend a dime in maintenance to save money.

Does the MRO have to put up with a union that mandates unskilled workers being upgraded causing scrap parts and rework rejects. TUL has becoming a training facility in some areas instead of a competetive skilled workforce.

Does the MRO have hundreds of unproductive workers pretending to be managers. Being involved and participating in decision making is one thing, turning the "working together" process into a safe haven for worthless lazy union workers is another.

Does the MRO have a discipline system that allows workers to be fired 4 or 5 times and still be employed.

Does the MRO have a management team that works daily on crisis management and never spends time working to prevent the crisis from happening again.

Does the MRO have a computer system that is capable of providing priority production direction but because bad or no data is uploaded to the system or crews fail to use the system so impending crisis is always on the horizon.

These are a few things right off the top I can think of right now.
There are more if I were really tasked with demonstrating how we could be more competetive.

However, nobody I know trust management enough to offer solutions or real ideas due to the fact we all know management either steals the savings we might provide or the solution is disregarded because it will reduce management and/or union headcount.

We have actually become a job welfare program that is more interested in headcount than actually competing against the competition.

My point is there are far bigger savings to be had in culture changes than there are to be had in screwing the worker out of pay or benefits.But because the Union and Management agenda is to protect both sides headcount we never fix the real problems.
 
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My point is there are far bigger savings to be had in culture changes than there are to be had in screwing the worker out of pay or benefits.But because the Union and Management agenda is to protect both sides headcount we never fix the real problems.
I had previously been taught an employment contract is a double edged sword. Unfortunately for all involved, this has become more a matter of protection re: the status quo as you rightfully point out.

The TWU has no interest in losing dues as the company dolts have no interest in ridding themselves of their golf buddies. Couple this with a disinterested board of directors whose priorities lie elsewhere (saving face), and it's easy to see why everything has gone to hell in a handbasket.
 
I had previously been taught an employment contract is a double edged sword. Unfortunately for all involved, this has become more a matter of protection re: the status quo as you rightfully point out.

The TWU has no interest in losing dues as the company dolts have no interest in ridding themselves of their golf buddies. Couple this with a disinterested board of directors whose priorities lie elsewhere (saving face), and it's easy to see why everything has gone to hell in a handbasket.

I see it a little differently.
For the Bases. If this passes the company will get productivity increases and reduced headcount at zero cost. Like I've said before the company is getting everything they wanted in this deal and we arent getting anything fully restored to 2003 levels. The workers will be getting negligible increases. The 20% OSMs on the docks alone would probably offset that cost. Total pay for the vast majority of workers at the end of the deal would still be less than we had in 2003, a lot less for OH A&Ps, they would only be making $1.65 more than they are today, in 2013, which would bring them up to 33.85, over $2 less than they were making in 2003. Ten years and still making over $2/hr less!

I think the intent is to make your compensation competative with the TIMCOs of the industry, the only thing it wont be to get 3P work, it will be to give AA an even greater cost advantage over competitors. The fleet will continue to shrink as more and more Eagle planes replace Aa planes, but the TWU represented ranks at even lower paid Eagle would swell.

For the line we would see consolidation of aircraft maintenance into the class I stations. The "Wage Opener", even if rewritten with enforceable language would not keep us at number 2 like they claimed at the table because nobody would be getting the $1.50 MRT. They have a $1.50/hour cost advatage built in. So if all the other carriers end up within a range of $1.50/hr, which is the norm, we could very well be dead last in pay but still be number 2 on paper, thanks to the $1.50 MRT with the 8 hour window,

I dont see a concern for maintaining headcount at AA because by doubling the Eagle ASMS eagle could very well have more aircraft than AA. This would drive heads at Eagle. They currently have around 300 aircraft, we have around 600, and thats with being limited to 6% ASMs, now they can double it to 12.4% ASMs, so they could easily double their fleet to 600 aircraft at the current AA ASM levels. Or AMR could retire a bunch of MD-80s and add a bunch of RJs.

Overall headcount at AA would continue to decline, but attrition would probably offset the need for layoffs as it has for the last 5 years.

I dont see where there is anything that should drive a yes vote from either the base or the line. We all lose, the bases and class II stations would lose the most. I think both would see guys forced to either DFW, LAX, MIA, NY1 or ORD.
 
Can anyone say HIGH COST OF LIVING at 1993 wages.
Vote YES and thats all you will be saying
 
snip......
My point is there are far bigger savings to be had in culture changes than there are to be had in screwing the worker out of pay or benefits.But because the Union and Management agenda is to protect both sides headcount we never fix the real problems.
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Absolutely right on !!!

Your point about agreeing to culteral changes instead of screwing the worker out of pay and benefits is such a no brainer.

Enough blame to go around and it appears no incentive for either "side" to change.
 
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SWA mechanics the most productive? Is it because of the way the company is run or because of the contract? I dont think that if you compare line operations there is much of a disparity in workload and productivity, just in pay and benifits , especially when you factor out ETOPS and wide body staffing. Our contract doesnt have a staffing ratio for Aircraft Mechanics. The company determines how many mechaincs they need.
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Good points Bob

I did work the line on midnights at AA 15 years ago and will say that at least there was accountability. You were assigned an aiplane, by yourself, and it better be ready to go with all possible MELS and write-ups taken care of. If not, the crew chief had you in front of the supervisor in the morning when he came on duty. Thats the accountability a line mechanic has, or at least had when I was there.

In overhaul it's a country club where if you want to work you can. If you don't, then you don't. Coffee maker and seat mechanics making 40+ a year???? Gimme a break. Does anyone not understand that the other mechanics are subsidizing these and other "unskilled" postions?

So yeah, maybe our line mechanics compare in staffing and pay but I would really like to see how our overhaul costs compare to what the company could get outside. Of course AA would lose control of pay and scheduling so it's not all bad for the company to keep it in house. But these costs have got to be part of the negotiations.
 
In overhaul it's a country club where if you want to work you can. If you don't, then you don't. Coffee maker and seat mechanics making 40+ a year???? Gimme a break. Does anyone not understand that the other mechanics are subsidizing these and other "unskilled" postions?
The exact divide and conquer that they talk about. When you have one work group complaining about what another work group is making and then state they are subsidizing it, we have a problem. <_<
 
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I dont see where there is anything that should drive a yes vote from either the base or the line. We all lose, the bases and class II stations would lose the most. I think both would see guys forced to either DFW, LAX, MIA, NY1 or ORD.
[/quote]

These are the kind of facts everyone needs to see before voting. No emotion, just facts.

Very scary stuff for everyone........
 
The exact divide and conquer that they talk about. When you have one work group complaining about what another work group is making and then state they are subsidizing it, we have a problem. <_<

I'm not complaing about a workgroup necessarily. They are all working for a living like we all are.

I guess I have a little different opinion of the "socialist" aspects of a union and I think if every workgroup negotiated what they are worth then we wouldn't be in the position we are in. That's all.

I have an A&P and would like to be compensated fairly for it and the responsibility that comes with it. But that goes against the basic principle of a union. Sometings got to give over time and I see licensed mechanics losing .
 
I'm not complaing about a workgroup necessarily. They are all working for a living like we all are.

I guess I have a little different opinion of the "socialist" aspects of a union and I think if every workgroup negotiated what they are worth then we wouldn't be in the position we are in. That's all.

I have an A&P and would like to be compensated fairly for it and the responsibility that comes with it. But that goes against the basic principle of a union. Sometings got to give over time and I see licensed mechanics losing .


Unions should support merit based bids and promotions instead of seniority based. Seniority systems assume everone is equally productive and time on the job is all that matters.
 
Unions should support merit based bids and promotions instead of seniority based. Seniority systems assume everone is equally productive and time on the job is all that matters.

If we give up seniority, that will be the last straw to our concessions! If there were any accountability at all in the company and the union, the slugs could be taken care of. B)
 

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