TWU Jim Little: I have saved the membersd from themselves!

[Bob Owens]

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On 4/30/2003 6:16:01 AM KCFlyer wrote:

-----nevermind that you''ve got it contractually stipulated that a welder can''t hand a mechanic a wrench

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You are showing your ignorance once again. Ever hear of cross utilization? Its been there for over 20 years.

 

[James T. Kirk]

Gee Dave have you thought about seeking out some good medical help, or are you just out of the drugs you have been taking.

 

[KCFlyer]

Bob - why is past history so important in identifying managment error, but is to be ignored when it comes to the union? How long did the "it''s not my job" attitude linger until something was done to address it in the form of "cross utilization". Why is it that previous union negotiations with the company never included any "productivity" increases until just recently? Why was a company threatened with a strike unless they caved in to the union demands? History is history my friend. Neither side has a clean record.

 

[KCFlyer]

Bob, I only know what things were like when I WAS in a union. One time a supervisor helped us load a truck. Another union brother, rather than exercising a little "cross utilization" and helping us out, sat on his ass and then filed a grievance against the supervisor for "taking work from a union man. "

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 4/30/2003 8:31:54 AM KCFlyer wrote:


Bob, I only know what things were like when I WAS in a union. One time a supervisor helped us load a truck. Another union brother, rather than exercising a little "cross utilization" and helping us out, sat on his ass and then filed a grievance against the supervisor for "taking work from a union man. "

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How many years ago was that?
So you feel that a singular experience qualifies you comment on all unions and contracts?
So if you got laid once does that make you an expert lover? There is more to unionism than having at one time paid dues, or at least there should be.

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 4/30/2003 9:12:19 AM KCFlyer wrote:


Bob - why is past history so important in identifying managment error, but is to be ignored when it comes to the union? How long did the "it's not my job" attitude linger until something was done to address it in the form of "cross utilization". Why is it that previous union negotiations with the company never included any "productivity" increases until just recently? Why was a company threatened with a strike unless they caved in to the union demands? History is history my friend. Neither side has a clean record.

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Once again you reveal your ignorance. The fact is that workers must do as they are told unless there is a danger to themslves in performing a job or they will be terminated for insubordination. Insubordination is the charge that is the most likely to stick in termination cases. The fact is the rule is "obey, then grieve". It was the rule back when you worked union too. What the supervisor in your case should have done is told the other worker to work, then let them sort it out in arbitration if a settlement could not be reached.

Why is it that previous union negotiations with the company never included any "productivity" increases until just recently.

Is 1983 considered recent? The fact is that contracts, even in the best of times usually give productivity increase which maintain value over time in exchange for raises that lose value over time. In this case we gave huge pay cuts that will compound our losses over time plus productivity changes that will leave us with nothing to bargain with later except to strike. Management by far is the winner. Salaries for management when compared to workers salaries clearly reflect this. Could running a company today really be that much harder for the executives today than in the past? What really has changed? What justifies the huge increase in management salaries? The "market"? No there are more MBAs than ever before so the supply more than meets the demand. Performance? Well the current state of many businesses answers that. The fact is that the structure of corporate America is the driving force behind executive salaries, not the market, not stockholders, but executive compensation committees that are stacked with party's that have a vested interest in seeing execuitive salaries go up, because most of them are executivesthemselves.

Why was a company threatened with a strike unless they caved in to the union demands?

Why not? Thats the way the game is played. If your boss refused to pay you properly would you just quit without letting him know that you were considering leaving? The fact is that companies that employ large numbers of people that essentially do the same job have an enormous advantage over the suppliers of labor, unions are a means by which suppliers of labor try to balance out the power of setting the price for labor. What other viable choices do they have?

 

[Workingman]

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On 4/30/2003 8:31:54 AM KCFlyer wrote:


Bob, I only know what things were like when I WAS in a union.  One time a supervisor helped us load a truck.  Another union brother, rather than exercising a little "cross utilization" and helping us out, sat on his ass and then filed a grievance against the supervisor for "taking work from a union man. "

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KCFlyer,
You are still in a union (a group of people working for the same goal) BUT YOU DO NOT HAVE A CONTRACT WITH THE MANAGEMENT THAT HIRED YOU. I put those words in caps not to yell at you but so you and others get it that the people at the top in all the airlines and yes even Delta have CONTRACTS with the companies that hired them. I will never understand why people that are so againest a union with a contract being that you sign a contract when you buy a home, car, okey a doctor to perform surgery on your body but you don''t want a contract with a person that hires you for wages in exchange for your labor you perform to pay for the other contracts you sign.
When people at the top in any company start to manage the companies with integrity (honesty), stop telling lies (intentionally giving false statements) to the people they hire the need for unions will not be there.
The problem with the unions now is the leadership in the unions are not honest and do not have integrity and can anything be done at this time to fix this I do not know. Does this surprise me, not at all when we look at our goverment leaders and the mess our courts are in so can it be fixed?

 

[Wretched Wrench]

KC flyer wrote: "............. Why is it that previous union negotiations with the company never included any "productivity" increases until just recently?"

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KC, you are as uninformed on this issue as you are on so many others. We in AC maint have work rules in place from 20 years ago that other airlines are just now beginning to address. Just one example is cargo meeting and pushing airplanes. There many others.

 

[RV4]

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On 4/30/2003 7:15:49 AM James T. Kirk wrote:

Gee Dave have you thought about seeking out some good medical help, or are you just out of the drugs you have been taking.

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Welcome aboard!

Can you tell us of the L.L. Dean grievance and 150 members screwed out of seniority by a "side deal" cut by a union officer named Jim Cook?

 

[RV4]

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On 4/30/2003 9:12:19 AM KCFlyer wrote:


Why is it that previous union negotiations with the company never included any "productivity" increases until just recently?
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There you go showing your lack of knowledge and facts.

I remember LeAAp Pay which was a performance based pay bonus. It was paid quarterly by AA and MAP''s were met by overhaul maintenance every quarter of it''s existence.

Why don''t you go find a place to complain about something you have the facts on instead of flaming with anti-union rhetoric?

Your lies as a result of ignorance tire me.

 

[KCFlyer]

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On 5/1/2003 5:43:35 AM RV4 wrote:

Your lies as a result of ignorance tire me.​

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Your constant bitching, and all talk but apparently no action on starting that new job, are also very tiring.

 

[James T. Kirk]

RV4
Member

Total Posts: 1,043
Last Post: 5/1/2003
Member Since: 8/20/2002
Member #91

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On 4/30/2003 7:15:49 AM James T. Kirk wrote:

Gee Dave have you thought about seeking out some good medical help, or are you just out of the drugs you have been taking.

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Welcome aboard!

Can you tell us of the L.L. Dean grievance and 150 members screwed out of seniority by a "side deal" cut by a union officer named Jim Cook?









paging Mr. Stone, please pick up the red phone for the latest on management blunders and hidden perks...



Well Dave I don’t think it is as bad as amfa FAILURE TO REPRESENT the amfa members at Atlanta when they refused to negotiate with NWA to keep over 1200 members from losing their jobs.

 

[Bob Owens]

What happened to CIO?


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On 4/28/2003 919 AM Checking it Out wrote:


NW is still Farming out Heavy Maint. Is AA ?

Why would they? Where could they get it done cheaper? Is it our "iron clad language" or simple economics that keep the work in house?

CPI is misleading. Several sources has showed charts the average Aviation Employee is staying ahead of Inflation!

Ok. Lets see what you got!



The TWU has done a great job along withn the other Great Unions at AA! They all believe in saving AA. Unlike a few!

So unions are now in the business of saving companies from their "greedy" workers. So tell me, who is out there fighting for increased wages and benifits, you know, the job that Unions used to do?


How much of a paycut is Little taking?

At the COPE Convention they were complaining about how the government wanted more detailed financial reporting. Maybe its not such a bad idea? It be interesting to find out exactly how much these guys were getting when all is said and done.



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Its sad that CIO is desperate to make a counter arguement that he starts quoting the corporate line instead of the "union" line. The concept of reducing pay and benifits for jobs is a losing proposition, it has been one of labors biggest challenges. He even goes as far as directly contradicting the "Union" position on the CPI and how wages of workers has fared in comparasion.

Why wont you answer a few questions?​

 

[RV4]

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On 5/1/2003 3:25:46 PM Bob Owens wrote:

What happened to CIO?

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Bob, CIO has re-appeared as "James T. Kirk"

 

[RV4]

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On 5/1/2003 9:15:27 AM James T. Kirk wrote:

Well Dave I don’t think it is as bad as amfa FAILURE TO REPRESENT the amfa members at Atlanta when they refused to negotiate with NWA to keep over 1200 members from losing their jobs.

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So you believe instead, AMFA should have given up 17.5%, 5 Holidays, 5 Vacation Days, 50% Sick time, OSM payrates, Weight and Thrust retrictions on experience, and unlimited and unconfirmed outsource percentage, to save how many jobs, ?

Lets ask the TWU members via a credible poll/vote?

Difference is AMFA members are the union. TWU dictates and has slogans to claim "I am the Union".

If AMFA members are so against the current policy, they have recall of officers involved to correct the problem. I have not heard of any recall petitions over the Atlanta base closure? Have you?

Strange, I have not seen the procedure for members to recall TWU officers, nor the petition to recall James C. Little.

Oh that's right, the TWU removed such items before the sellout was executed!

I also believe that Federal Law would allow for legal action for "failure to represent", as you claim and I have not seen that from any AMFA members. On the other hand, legal action is still on the agenda by TWU members against the TWU?

Mr. Kirk, I think you have a kling-on attached to your lower lip. Or is that a dingle berry from kissing the companies ass?