Well when prices go up workers demand more, not less.
TWU negotiations.........what?
- Thread starter Chuck Schalk
- Start date
Well when prices go up workers demand more, not less.
Chuck Schalk
Veteran
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2006
- Messages
- 1,042
- Reaction score
- 1,149
Too good not to post more than once!
Bob Owens
Group: Registered Member
Posts: 6,816
Joined: 9-September 02
Member No.: 901
NO!!!
While there are some trustworthy individuals on the committee the committee as a whole cannot be trusted. The International run committee has decided to lock out the membership from the process and is using bullying tactics-the threat of expulsion from the talks, to keep the membership out. Ironically the same International always complains about the lack of membership participation and blames the demise of working conditions on that lack of participation. The hypocrisy is overwhelming. This move, typical for the TWU, is just yet another example of the autocratic hypocritcal nature of this organization.
There can be times when its justified to temporarily keep secrets from the membership-such as if you don’t want the company to find out what your plans are for some reason or another-but in this case the company has been informed of the committees propsals so telling the members wouldnt do any harm. So what’s the excuse? John Iuliano,President of Local 562 and representative of maintenance for the mechanics at Local 562, claims “The committee(he defers all blame to the committee but then tells us about what a man he is) doesn’t want the members to negotiate the contract on the floorâ€. What does he mean by that? Most of the articles have tentative agreements and the company already has the unions proposals on the rest, so what damage could letting the members know what they are asking for do to the “processâ€? Unless “the process†is to sneak through another TWU concessionary contract?
Recently Iuliano, said that even though he feels as we do and if he were still just a member he would be outraged, “As a man I gave my word†that he would do whatever the committee dictated even though he knew it was wrong. Agreeing to do what you know is wrong is not being a man-its being a coward or a sellout. So what is he a coward or a sellout? Is he doing as he has done from day one in office-jumping though every hoop the International holds up because he is afraid of being removed by the International or is he trying to set himself up for one of those six figure International jobs like Gordon, Gless, Videtich and Conley? I dont think he is a coward. Got knews for you John there is no room at the Inn, the TWUs payroll is already inflated and if Little wants to get reelected at the next convention he has to bring someone who does not come from AMR into the International.
I could give Iuliano a pass on agreeing not to disclose the contents of the proposal until they gave them to the company but I can not give him a pass on agreeing to not disclose what the proposals are after they gave them to the company.
What I find utterly reprehensible is the fact that Iuliano agreed to not even disclose how he voted on keeping the information secret. This is a typical International tactic to keep complete control of the committee in their hands and out of the memberships hands. The International knows how each member of the committee votes and can work to isolate and compromise those who oppose their lead, by keeping it secret from the membership it prevents those who lick the Internationals boots from being revealed ,and held accountable , to the membership they supposedly represent. In other words it helps the International eliminates opposition. Opponents of International sellouts have a much harder time defending those who they represent as they face unrelenting pressure from the International and their lackeys to submit to their will when they cant get support from the floor. Thats what they mean by "We dont want the members to negotiate from the floor". In other words we should have no say in the process.
There is no reason for us to trust the negotiating committee. The committee apparently trusts the company more than they trust us. The committee keep secrets with the company and keep us out of the loop. The committee is supposed to be representing us, not the International nor the company, it asks for our blind support but has done nothing do deserve or prove that it should be trusted with such support.
--------------------
Bob Owens
Group: Registered Member
Posts: 6,816
Joined: 9-September 02
Member No.: 901
NO!!!
While there are some trustworthy individuals on the committee the committee as a whole cannot be trusted. The International run committee has decided to lock out the membership from the process and is using bullying tactics-the threat of expulsion from the talks, to keep the membership out. Ironically the same International always complains about the lack of membership participation and blames the demise of working conditions on that lack of participation. The hypocrisy is overwhelming. This move, typical for the TWU, is just yet another example of the autocratic hypocritcal nature of this organization.
There can be times when its justified to temporarily keep secrets from the membership-such as if you don’t want the company to find out what your plans are for some reason or another-but in this case the company has been informed of the committees propsals so telling the members wouldnt do any harm. So what’s the excuse? John Iuliano,President of Local 562 and representative of maintenance for the mechanics at Local 562, claims “The committee(he defers all blame to the committee but then tells us about what a man he is) doesn’t want the members to negotiate the contract on the floorâ€. What does he mean by that? Most of the articles have tentative agreements and the company already has the unions proposals on the rest, so what damage could letting the members know what they are asking for do to the “processâ€? Unless “the process†is to sneak through another TWU concessionary contract?
Recently Iuliano, said that even though he feels as we do and if he were still just a member he would be outraged, “As a man I gave my word†that he would do whatever the committee dictated even though he knew it was wrong. Agreeing to do what you know is wrong is not being a man-its being a coward or a sellout. So what is he a coward or a sellout? Is he doing as he has done from day one in office-jumping though every hoop the International holds up because he is afraid of being removed by the International or is he trying to set himself up for one of those six figure International jobs like Gordon, Gless, Videtich and Conley? I dont think he is a coward. Got knews for you John there is no room at the Inn, the TWUs payroll is already inflated and if Little wants to get reelected at the next convention he has to bring someone who does not come from AMR into the International.
I could give Iuliano a pass on agreeing not to disclose the contents of the proposal until they gave them to the company but I can not give him a pass on agreeing to not disclose what the proposals are after they gave them to the company.
What I find utterly reprehensible is the fact that Iuliano agreed to not even disclose how he voted on keeping the information secret. This is a typical International tactic to keep complete control of the committee in their hands and out of the memberships hands. The International knows how each member of the committee votes and can work to isolate and compromise those who oppose their lead, by keeping it secret from the membership it prevents those who lick the Internationals boots from being revealed ,and held accountable , to the membership they supposedly represent. In other words it helps the International eliminates opposition. Opponents of International sellouts have a much harder time defending those who they represent as they face unrelenting pressure from the International and their lackeys to submit to their will when they cant get support from the floor. Thats what they mean by "We dont want the members to negotiate from the floor". In other words we should have no say in the process.
There is no reason for us to trust the negotiating committee. The committee apparently trusts the company more than they trust us. The committee keep secrets with the company and keep us out of the loop. The committee is supposed to be representing us, not the International nor the company, it asks for our blind support but has done nothing do deserve or prove that it should be trusted with such support.
--------------------
Chuck Schalk
Veteran
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2006
- Messages
- 1,042
- Reaction score
- 1,149
I have always said "you are either part of the solution or part of the problem". President Iuliano has demonstrated his ability to assimilate with the problem. The TWU International and the Presidents council has once again put themselves above the members they represent. Why do we elect people to represent us when we are not in the process at all? Thanks Mr. Owens for telling it like it is.
TWU-GOTTA-GO
Advanced
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2006
- Messages
- 151
- Reaction score
- 0
Latest rumor on the contract is $3 an hour raise, keep medical, 2 more holidays at 1.5, 5 year contract. :down: :down: :down:
TIME FOR CHANGE
Veteran
I would hate to have to be disgruntled for another Five years but if that is what the company wants that is what they are going to get.
A five year contract is unacceplable
FrequentFlierCA
Veteran
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2008
- Messages
- 591
- Reaction score
- 35
Why don't we quit reading airliners.net and just wait until the proposal comes out so we can dissect the real thing.
Chuck Schalk
Veteran
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2006
- Messages
- 1,042
- Reaction score
- 1,149
The companies proposal is part of the process. Lets look at what they offered:
Sick time back full pay= means the company was getting hurt by all the extra long sick calls
Holidays at double time= means the company was getting hurt by all the sick calls on the
holidays.
Non-pensionable yearly bonus= to buy yes votes
What was really offered was nothing that would not benefit the company.
Now the TWU will counter and settle with something better than this proposal but less than everything back, put it out for a vote and claim victory!
As Bob Owens stated " if you were a coach of a football team and everytime you got in a pinch you used the same play and it scored a touchdown, wouldn't you use it over and over again because it worked"!
Sick time back full pay= means the company was getting hurt by all the extra long sick calls
Holidays at double time= means the company was getting hurt by all the sick calls on the
holidays.
Non-pensionable yearly bonus= to buy yes votes
What was really offered was nothing that would not benefit the company.
Now the TWU will counter and settle with something better than this proposal but less than everything back, put it out for a vote and claim victory!
As Bob Owens stated " if you were a coach of a football team and everytime you got in a pinch you used the same play and it scored a touchdown, wouldn't you use it over and over again because it worked"!
Sure, especially if it's the only play you have left. I want wages back to 2001 levels like the rest of you, but I don't see how we can get that without killing our jobs in the longer-term. There's an expression about that: having our cake and eating it, too!
MCI transplant
Veteran
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2003
- Messages
- 5,311
- Reaction score
- 584
<_< ------- You know, I wise Ourpay and his boys would have thought about that before they took their bonus!! :down:------ And remember their "bankruptcy proof" retirements, Carty set up, are still in place!
Chuck Schalk
Veteran
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2006
- Messages
- 1,042
- Reaction score
- 1,149
It is my understanding that the vote not to bring the proposal back to the fall was 12-9 in the presidents council. The Int'l was pushing to bring it back for a vote and the vote failed. This proposal will be back to the floor very soon. The council will vote again on this proposal and 2 or more presidents will flip to bring this back for a vote. All that training for the presidents on how to negotiate and it comes down to a company proposal that they want us to vote on! When this proposal comes to the floor for a vote it will also pass, not by much but it will pass. The TWU int'l and the presidents will blame the members for passing it. Just me thinking out loud
TWU informer
Veteran
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2003
- Messages
- 7,550
- Reaction score
- 3,731
Indeed, all it takes is a commitment by Little to appoint a few more $125,000.00 plus per year life timers from the Presidents Council to International Positions and the vote will take place.
This was a feel out to see who needed to be manipulated.
T
The Goose
Guest
Hell's bells, Mr Informer - we all know that Little Jimmy wants that first vote to take place so he can accept the company's contract for us as he was, no doubt, paid quite handsomely to do, in addition to what he extracts from the union itself ($237,000/yr. per LM2).
Did I just use the word "union"? If you wish to call collusion between the International and the company a "union", only then is the term accurate.
Where's my F.U.R.P. card? That name has a kinda nice ring to it, don't you think?
As far as manipulation is concerned, I was always under the impression that's what was going on when Burchette had his hands in Romano's pockets.
walterbristow
Newbie
- Joined
- May 18, 2008
- Messages
- 2
- Reaction score
- 0
why 18 months...and i thought eagle was for sale
