TWU negotiations.........what?

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

"sell out future mechanics."

Brother, I don't care what you ask for and what you get, you will not prevent
the above mentioned. I guarantee it.

My suggestion to you is you better get everything you can for those on the clock TODAY
because if and when new hires come rolling in, they will be the new future of the airline employee
in terms of benefit and pay. Take it to the bank.

Just remember those future mechanics will outnumber us one day and so will thier votes

 

[AANOTOK]

Agreed TFC, but you watch, whatever package is presented, that will be key and eventually voted in
by the membership or Little Jimmy himself.

Guaranteed! 🙁

 

[MTheory]

I hope everyone understands this clearly. The company wants the pension, retiree medical and non licensed mechanics at the line stations.

If we all do not get on the same page, BASE and LINE stations, we are certainly doomed.

I don't care where you are based, does anyone want their pension ended and retiree medical eliminated and sell out future mechanics.

The company has made it clear that unless you wear a suit and tie to work and are above a Level 8, you are garbage to them.

DOES EVERYONE UNDERSTAND THIS?

And to those who say we shouldnt ask for anything because of the country's and company's economic situation, do not be blinded by this company's arrogance. They want more from us. PERMANENTLY.

Thank you HOPEFUL;

You are right on point with your comments.

But how do we change the situation? Digging our heels in, demanding $40.00 per hour and shouting "restore and more" from the rooftops is not going to get it. I dont care what Southwest pays. Even if AA was making a Billion a year, we wouldnt get it. Times have changed. We must change.

First, we must recognize our situation.

We are part of a Global economy. And just as high water flows to low, high wages will come down to meet those in other parts or the world. Now, there is an unabated transfer of labor from the high cost USA and Europe to lower cost parts of the world in Aisa and Centeral America. Even with the strong labor unions in Europe, Lufthansa and British Airways outsource overhaul to Aisia and other parts of the world. I dont think that it will ever come back, but we must do what ever we can to protect ours. For anyone out there that thinks getting rid of TUL will enable them( the line AMT) to get a raise, well their dead wrong. The big boys in HDQ will tell you anything to get us to turn against each other. Besides, here at JFK, if your not with a major airline, the average wage is $25.00/hr, (no benefits) and there seems to be an endless supply willing to work for that wage. Middle class, skilled blue collar workers and the Unions that represent us need to change the game.

Second, our demographics hurt us.

The average age on an AMT is 47 years old. You know what that means? It means they have kids, a house , a family. They are established in their community. They have 20+ years of seniority. For all but a very few, it would be next to impossible to get another job to match what they have here. Besides, what 47yr old wants to start at the bottom of a seniority list? Even if it meant 10K/yr more, I bet most people would stay. The Company knows this. No one is leaving.

What can we do to increase our wages/benefits?

Well, thats going to be like stopping an avalanche, but here goes. For too many years aviation schools were allowed to pump out A&P's like meat through a grinder. Union leaders, and lawmakers need to forget about numbers, and push for legislation to make it hard to be an AMT. Its a safety sensitive job. Make it hard to get. Reduce the supply.

For too many years we accepted those who said "all AMT's are created equal" They are not. There are different skill sets required for just about everything we do. Pay accordingly.

Eventually, the Company will put OSM's on the line. As AMT's we must promote our skills. If your only skill is greasing a gear, you lose. Unions must face the fact that there are A&P's and there are A&P's that are mechanics. Let the Company have the line OSM, but make them pay for the LMP, the logbook release, the run-up and taxi. Pay the Crew Chief and the Inspector for their responsibilities. Take a page from the EASA (European certification) playbook. Force more stringent training, and dont make it an automatic "pass" from the B.S. 40 hour class. Make it a tough job. But get paid for the responsibilities.

The negotiatiors and ourselves are going to have to stop thinking in the past. Its done and gone.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

For too many years we accepted those who said "all AMT's are created equal" They are not. There are different skill sets required for just about everything we do. Pay accordingly.

Eventually, the Company will put OSM's on the line. As AMT's we must promote our skills. If your only skill is greasing a gear, you lose. Unions must face the fact that there are A&P's and there are A&P's that are mechanics. Let the Company have the line OSM, but make them pay for the LMP, the logbook release, the run-up and taxi. Pay the Crew Chief and the Inspector for their responsibilities. Take a page from the EASA (European certification) playbook. Force more stringent training, and dont make it an automatic "pass" from the B.S. 40 hour class. Make it a tough job. But get paid for the responsibilities
In one sentence you say the company wont pay and we need to adjust to your global economy BS.
But then you get on your pedestal and demand higher pay for crew chiefs and and inspectors.

Well which one is it or are you just confused who should make what
:blink: :blink: :blink:

And if AA continues to fly into the High cost areas then they can adopt some sort of COLA to offset the employees paycheck and help cope with the high costs. Unless of course the Asians and the Mexicans want to come and work in LAX NYC SFO ORD MIA etc... by all means let them come. And as for the 25 dollar an hour mechanics I dont think AA has any AMT job openings.

 

[MTheory]

In one sentence you say the company wont pay and we need to adjust to your global economy BS.
But then you get on your pedestal and demand higher pay for crew chiefs and and inspectors.

Well which one is it or are you just confused who should make what
:blink: :blink: :blink:

And if AA continues to fly into the High cost areas then they can adopt some sort of COLA to offset the employees paycheck and help cope with the high costs. Unless of course the Asians and the Mexicans want to come and work in LAX NYC SFO ORD MIA etc... by all means let them come. And as for the 25 dollar an hour mechanics I dont think AA has any AMT job openings.

What I am saying is that the Company will not give in because they dont have to. The Company CAN adapt COLA, but what compells them to add on the extra cost? No one is going anywhere. We have to change in order to get what we want. The old ways of negotiationg a contract will not work.

The global economy is a big factor. Tens of thousands of high paying A&P jobs have gone overseas. Those jobs are gone.

I also said those that have LMP, Taxi, as well as C/C and Inspectors should get pay proportional to responsibility. Those are only examples on how to extract higher pay.

Those $25.00/hr AMT's are already working, not for AA, but for North American, Mach II Maint, Swissport etc. The point being just because it is a high cost area, doesnt automatically mean a high cost salary.

What else will force wages up?.... When AA has to hire and no one takes the job.

 

[TWU informer]

My guess is the TWU gets trapped in a 30 day cooling off period. Either binding arbitration or an Obama PEB will result. Then we will witness the well educated management presenting a case against good ol'e boys from the toolbox.

Once Obama stops a Labor Strike like Clinton did then maybe those union members that keep placing there hopes and dreams in the politicians will finally awake from the kool-aid.

If the Democrats were friends of organized labor they would tell AA no deal on the BA/Iberia alliance until labor agreements are signed.

 

[The Goose]

My guess is the TWU gets trapped in a 30 day cooling off period. Either binding arbitration or an Obama PEB will result. Then we will witness the well educated management presenting a case against good ol'e boys from the toolbox.

Once Obama stops a Labor Strike like Clinton did then maybe those union members that keep placing there hopes and dreams in the politicians will finally awake from the kool-aid.

If the Democrats were friends of organized labor they would tell AA no deal on the BA/Iberia alliance until labor agreements are signed.

The polticians would make wonderful friends if we could afford to purchase them as do others. This isn't a party thing - it's a money thing - always has been.

 

[TWU informer]

The polticians would make wonderful friends if we could afford to purchase them as do others. This isn't a party thing - it's a money thing - always has been.

Exactly!

But the TWU and the AFL-CIO insist on playing a game of "who has the most money to buy them"

Until we return to the days of civil unrest we never advance.

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

A quote attributed to Ben Franklin is, "Those who would sacrifice essential Liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither."

Now, this may be far above your head, but ponder that quote for a while and consider why there was a revolution here against the British in the late 1700s - people had had quite enough.

Of course, there were those who were OK with whatever the British did and made special deals hoping they wouldn't be hurt too badly, many times to the detriment of their family and friends but, as it's said, "It takes all kinds."

Ponder this for a while and get back to us.

Are you aware that you can make a point without being a jackass?

:: crickets ::

As for your "point":

1. false analogy
2. straw man
3. ad hominem

Ponder that.

 

[iluvaa]

Are you aware that you can make a point without being a jackass?

:: crickets ::

As for your "point":

1. false analogy
2. straw man
3. ad hominem

Ponder that.

Ponder this us jack donkies around the US are waking up and we are about to take things back from greedy folks that think there worth 30mil a year while we are only worth scraps. when the false economy hits the bottom us gun totting okies will still be eating will you.

 

[The Goose]

Are you aware that you can make a point without being a jackass?

:: crickets ::

As for your "point":

1. false analogy
2. straw man
3. ad hominem

Ponder that.

Very interesting. Obviously, I was enough on target to elicit a response from you.

Not sure where you are from but kindly return there and take your name-calling with you - I finally figured out it's not necessary, especially with the English language.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

Is anyone aware of the battle at Continental Airlines? The Mechanics are in contract negotiations and fighting to raise the bar for the industry. Where is the union support of the industry? Where is the AFL/CIO support and informational campaign for all to hear?

 

[TWU informer]

Is anyone aware of the battle at Continental Airlines? The Mechanics are in contract negotiations and fighting to raise the bar for the industry. Where is the union support of the industry? Where is the AFL/CIO support and informational campaign for all to hear?

AFL-CIO Leadership is busy living with those that make $250,000.00 plus per year. Jim Little and the TWU are too busy pretenidng to be in negotiations while licking the boot so hard the soles have a look like the old cigarette commercials that exclaimed "I'd walk a mile for a camel" while showing a hole worn in the sole. That hole now comes from the licking by the TWU.

We the mechanics of AA may have to take the lead role and organize some support on our own. Because we can be assured our leadership hasn't even considered that approach.

Happy Thanksgiving to all.

 

[1AA]

Is anyone aware of the battle at Continental Airlines? The Mechanics are in contract negotiations and fighting to raise the bar for the industry. Where is the union support of the industry? Where is the AFL/CIO support and informational campaign for all to hear?

Come on Chuck by now we all know that the TWU is a follower not a leader. If the boys at CA get that nice bump in pay then that means the TWU has to start working for a living to try to match it. Does this sound familiar?????

AMFA at NW should ring a bell Circa 1999. $35 an hour with 7 weeks VC and 1.5x for training.

We all enjoyed that bump in pay and benefits until the so called crying by the company and BK threat. Then in one sweep it was all gone. Thanks to the TWU negotiating committee.

Funny how the guys that bash AMFA and support the TWU forgot about that short time in our careers that we actually started to get ahead. I believe many referred it to the AMFA contract.
But no credit was given by anyone at THAT time by the TWU for AMFA and NWA amt's who raised the bar. Now we will see if CA will raise the bar and what the TWU will do.

My guess is that the TWU is wishing for another NW fiasco at CA so they can sit back and enjoy their status Que.

 

[Tbag]

That’s not true for BNA. Title IV was separate in the vote.

Title IV

101 yes 15 No

If more A&Ps would know and DO their jobs, document and repair everything they find, the company would beg for a contract. You can bet the company attorneys aren't accepting niggardly remuneration for their work.