TWU negotiations.........what?

[eolesen]

I think there's still a message to be sent from refusing *voluntary* overtime. Operationally, having to white-slip is a pain in the arse for management.

The guys at the bottom of the list will still get stuck with forced overtime, but they're also the ones likely to get whacked, so they could use the extra money....

 

[Bob Owens]

The reason the 2010 pension contribution is so large is that under the law, the pensions were 96% funded at the end of 2007, and thus no minimum contributions were due to the pensions in 2009.

Whose being misleading? 96% funded based upon what assumptions? Even then if its 96% funded based upon overly optimistic assumptions then its still 4% underfunded. It may be legal but that doesnt make it right. Would you advise people to lower their 401K contributions because the market was performing well? The strategy of paying less when times are good then being saddled with "make up contributions" when times are bad sets the pension system up for failure.

When the company asked you to lobby Congress to permit AA to defer contributions it was because Oberstar and others wanted the law to force AA to freeze pension benefits in exchange for a longer make-up period (you'll recall that NW (headquartered in Oberstar's district) and other airlines froze their pensions). AA didn't want to freeze the benefits for active employees like you but wanted some flexibility in the timing of the make-up contributions. UA filed for Ch 11 in 2002 and terminated its pensions because it couldn't come up with the $3+ billion of pension contributions under the old rules.

"Flexibility in timing" or in common terms "delayed payments".They paid nothing this year, if they had made contributions this year they could pay less next year.
The fact is we lobbied for a longer "make up period", with no penalty, and they got it. If I delay payments on things that accrue then my later obligations will likely be higher. By winning the ability to have "flexible timing" (like timing the payments for when contract talks are heating up) we've given the company another tool to use in negotiations.

AA finally won that legislative battle and has the same benefits to make up shortfalls granted to NW and DL.

In other words AA won the benifits of BK without going BK.

The $500 million pension contribution isn't going to make or break AA.

I agree. The point was I believe that the pension payment is going to be used as a fear factor, like the "white spaces in 2012" were last June.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/34278201/site/14081...C&par=yahoo

SHOW ME DA MONEY

 

[eolesen]

Don't get too exited there, skippy... click on the link, and look at the three month view.

http://apps.cnbc.com/view.asp?uid=stocks/c...amp;loadIndex=0

The price might have jumped up 22% but that's just recovering lost ground over the past two months. It's still more than $1 lower than what it was in September...

Traffic gain? Lower capacity than last year, traffic was pretty much flat for a lot of carriers. You also had a 5% jump for some of the more leisure oriented carriers due to Mon after Thxgiving falling in November this year (last year it was Dec 1)...

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Knew I could count on you for the negative spin. You could be the poster child for AA's Kool AAide Campaign
Like I said show me the money
😛

 

[Rogallo]

Knew I could count on you for the negative spin. You could be the poster child for AA's Kool AAide Campaign
Like I said show me the money
😛

You got that right!!

 

[Bob Owens]

That might work if not for the TWU contract language that allows management to paperwork and demand overtime to be worked.

And we know how productive people are when they are forced OT!

When we had the siege they forced and things got worse, the guys had four more hours to find stuff to write up before they went home.

After being forced 4 you can walk off the job. If they forced more than 4 and someone got into an accident because they fell asleep at the wheel (because company policy says they can't sleep in their car and they should not remain on company property when they are not working, essentially forcing them to drive their cars off the lot) the company would be responsible.

 

[MCI transplant]

And we know how productive people are when they are forced OT!

When we had the siege they forced and things got worse, the guys had four more hours to find stuff to write up before they went home.

After being forced 4 you can walk off the job. If they forced more than 4 and someone got into an accident because they fell asleep at the wheel (because company policy says they can't sleep in their car and they should not remain on company property when they are not working, essentially forcing them to drive their cars off the lot) the company would be responsible.

<_< ----- Bob, what's really bad is that, at this late date, an old fart like myself should be the only one to even bring it up!---- An exTWA, exIAM, "old fart" at that!!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

<_< ----- Bob, what's really bad is that, at this late date, an old fart like myself should be the only one to even bring it up!---- An exTWA, exIAM, "old fart" at that!!!!

I guess you missed the post where I said the last time the mechanics at AA struck for a contract was 1969. I was eight years old. Combine that along with the general disinterest in how workers got what they did, even from the leaders of unions, and its no suprise we are where we are.

I remember a few years back when quite a few of my coworkers thought they were going to be able to invest their way to an early retirement in the stock market, I havent heard a price quote or a tip about a "Hot stock" in years. When working people walked into the stock market they did it the same way and with nearly the same odds as when they walked into a casino.

Maybe now that most realize they are going to have to work they will put more effort into figuring how the generations before us really got what we let get taken away. They fought for it, that meant dealing with some intense discomfort and no imagined guarantees.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ----!969? That was a good year! One year "after" I started to work for TWA! ----Kinda puts things into prospective doesn't it? :unsure:

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ---- Just as a point of reference, the TWA mechanics (IAM) had at least four "work stoppages" in that time frame (1969-2001). Two of our own, and two honoring other Unions picket lines!

 

[JAFA]

If they forced more than 4 and someone got into an accident because they fell asleep at the wheel (because company policy says they can't sleep in their car and they should not remain on company property when they are not working, essentially forcing them to drive their cars off the lot) the company would be responsible.

Nice try Bob, did you forget that there's an MTA bus stop right outside the parking lot or an Air Train stop a 5 minute walk fromt he hangar? I think the company would have no problem making the point that if I was too tired to drive I should just take the Air Train to the LIRR or subway, oh wait I already was told that once since I've been here.

 

[Bagbelt]

Yeah, they would be picked up by the mta driver who just got an 11% raise with twu local 100.

 

[Bob Owens]

Nice try Bob, did you forget that there's an MTA bus stop right outside the parking lot or an Air Train stop a 5 minute walk fromt he hangar? I think the company would have no problem making the point that if I was too tired to drive I should just take the Air Train to the LIRR or subway, oh wait I already was told that once since I've been here.

I think you are wrong, remember in discipline cases the burden of proof is on the company.

It an unreasonable expectation and a public safety hazzard to work aircraft mechanics to the point of exhaustion. (Would you want to fly on an aircraft where the person was working on it to the point where he wasnt fit to drive home?)There is no way to measure how exhausted someone is, its left to the discretion of the individual.

Not everybody lives within walking distance to mass transit. They would lose that arguement. We have people who live up to 60 miles away, and they may live four or five miles away from the LIRR with no bus service either. Alternate methods may be impractical.

Another point you failed to consider, the limits for working on aircraft are more stringent than driving. We are talking about impairment, the effects of fatigue are similar to the effects of alchohol. If you drink before work you could be within the legal limit for driving but beyond the limit for working on aircraft. If they worked you to the point where you're too physically impaired to drive then you were too impaired to work. The fact is the company wouldnt dare push it, if someone claims after 12 hours that they are too tired to work any longer he goes home, on the odd shifts, (Afternoons and Nights) he could probably get away with it after just eight if the company didnt tell him ahead of time to expect to work OT(if he normally doesnt work OT).

 

[Hopeful]

I think you are wrong, remember in discipline cases the burden of proof is on the company.

Another point you failed to consider, the limits for working on aircraft are more stringent than driving. We are talking about impairment, the effects of fatigue are similar to the effects of alchohol. If you drink before work you could be within the legal limit for driving but beyond the limit for working on aircraft. If they worked you to the point where you're too physically impaired to drive then you were too impaired to work. The fact is the company wouldnt dare push it, if someone claims after 12 hours that they are too tired to work any longer he goes home, on the odd shifts, (Afternoons and Nights) he could probably get away with it after just eight if the company didnt tell him ahead of time to expect to work OT(if he normally doesnt work OT).

Then the FAA should ban mechanics working double shifts (16hours). Flight crews have restrictions on their duty days, but yet mechanics can work double shifts and still be alert?