TWU or IAM in a Merger

[Senor Pelon]

I would take the IAM over the TWU anytime.

 

[700UW]

No union is better. Look at JetBlue and Delta. The Mechs are doing great and no union dues

Ask the former Mechanics at DL who closed the TPA and DFW hangars and DL is hiring contract mechanics to work in ATL Tech ops and not hiring them as DL employees.

And JetBlue outsources all heavy maintenance.

 

[Bob Owens]

And JetBlue outsources all heavy maintenance.

So you are saying that we should work for less so they can employ more in house.

That argument sounds like the same argument Republicans use against the minimum wage and Unions, that if employers could pay less unemployment would go down.

Jet Blue always outsourced their heavy maintenance. Much like UPS and WN, so how has that affected the mechanics who work there, who pay dues? Have any of them ever been RIF'd? Not to my knowledge, so they enjoy better job security. Sure the Unions don't collect as much dues but the workers at those carriers top out at over $40/hr, UPS tops out at over $50. If you were looking for a job and had the option of a carrier that does OH in house and you would top out at $34/hr or a carrier that outsources and tops out at $52/hr which would you choose?

 

[Rogallo]

If you were looking for a job and had the option of a carrier that does OH in house and you would top out at $34/hr or a carrier that outsources and tops out at $52/hr which would you choose?

Now Bob, that's not fair.!!

 

[OldBubba]

Point 700UW is, if IAM/TWA mechanics got a 2 dollar an hour raise everybody else got a 2 dollar an hour raise also. when we took a 2 dollar an hour cut everybody else took a 2 dollar an hour cut, right down to the janitors an guards. the only way mechanic to get more separations is when it came in license pay. the IAM way of thinking is it cost them the same amount for a loaf of bread as it does you. in the end is what happened to TWA eventually you have mechanics that are under paid an janitors and fleet service way overpaid. And so a company goes into bankruptcy, contracts all that stuff out. now as for mechanics, I can only tell you this first hand, I have triple the ass time at American compared to TWA . could not believe it when I saw mechanics playing games on their laptops an when told go back to work would look a supervisor and say we've already changed our 1 tire. if you wanted us to do more that's over time. LOL

 

[Bob Owens]

No union is better. Look at JetBlue and Delta. The Mechs are doing great and no union dues

Well UPS and SWA are doing the best, no layoffs ever, best pay, best benefits and both of them are Union. Both way ahead of Jet Blue and Delta.

 

[Bob Owens]

If a merger were to happen and the NMB rules are still the same as it was back with the TWA/AA acquisition then there will be no run off election. The IAM conceded to the TWU because the TWU and IAM knew that AMFA would have won the runoff with a fill in choice. The word probably came down from the AFL-CIO for the IAM to concede. The AFL-CIO had more to lose if both IAM and TWU were voted out. So if the rules are the same then there will be no run off. AMFA would win again. My Guess? Not really if you follow all the issues with AA and USAir. Both sides are ready for change. Teamsters? Not. They are only here at AA for a diversionary drive to distract the AMFA drive. So if the merger should happen we will have to see who concedes.

The IAM "conceded", in other words they didnt challenge it. I think they would this time. There is bad blood between the two because the TWU would not concede with America West in the other USAIR Merger, in fact a brawl broke out in PHL and a couple of TWU organizers were hospitalized. No doubt the IAM felt betrayed since they didnt mount a challenge at AA.

The IAM really didnt have much choice at AA though. The IAM walked away from TWA as part of a deal they made to not get screwed on debts that TWA owed to the IAM. If they had challenged the whole thing, including Seniority they were told to be prepared to at best get pennies on the dollar for what TWA owed the IAM for the pension and equipment the IAM owned and leased to TWA.

You have to remember that the AFL-CIO is not to member unions what the International is to the Locals. The AFL-CIO stood by when the IBT raided the IAM, and both were AFL-CIO affilated at the time.

For the TWU the mechanic group is the group thats most at risk in a merger, I believe our Fleet, Stores, Dispatchers etc are all better paid than their IAM counterparts at USAIR, not sure about other places such as UAL, etc.

So yea they may be concerned about AMFA, but thats a big maybe, as a group Title II and OH apparently have not changed, they got what they wanted and even if they did start moving for a new union it could be years off by the time all the challenges are exhausted, but if the USAIR deal goes through there more than likely will be an election, unless the TWU and IAM sit down and decide to just hand us over in return for the IAM conceding the other groups. While I said that the mechanics are the most at risk the IAM represents Fleet at UAL and could cause the TWU to spend a lot of money fighting off the IAM. Moneywise that would make sense, the TWU would get Fleet while the IAM would get Maint. We shall see.

 

[1AA]

Point 700UW is, if IAM/TWA mechanics got a 2 dollar an hour raise everybody else got a 2 dollar an hour raise also. when we took a 2 dollar an hour cut everybody else took a 2 dollar an hour cut, right down to the janitors an guards. the only way mechanic to get more separations is when it came in license pay. the IAM way of thinking is it cost them the same amount for a loaf of bread as it does you. in the end is what happened to TWA eventually you have mechanics that are under paid an janitors and fleet service way overpaid. And so a company goes into bankruptcy, contracts all that stuff out. now as for mechanics, I can only tell you this first hand, I have triple the ass time at American compared to TWA . could not believe it when I saw mechanics playing games on their laptops an when told go back to work would look a supervisor and say we've already changed our 1 tire. if you wanted us to do more that's over time. LOL

Welcome to the American Way. Courtesy of the TWU. The TWU and company allow this work culture because it keeps the TWU on the property. Not to say it might change under different representation but it has been this way for a while and no one wants to rock the boat. But now the boat was rocked and the drive is on to make a change for the better not worse as it would be with either staying with the TWU or switching to the Teamsters. So that leaves only one choice for improvement. Will it happen? Do not know as long as the TWU keep feeding the wonderful world mantra to the weak minded at AA.

 

[lineguy43]

Point 700UW is, if IAM/TWA mechanics got a 2 dollar an hour raise everybody else got a 2 dollar an hour raise also. when we took a 2 dollar an hour cut everybody else took a 2 dollar an hour cut, right down to the janitors an guards. the only way mechanic to get more separations is when it came in license pay. the IAM way of thinking is it cost them the same amount for a loaf of bread as it does you. in the end is what happened to TWA eventually you have mechanics that are under paid an janitors and fleet service way overpaid. And so a company goes into bankruptcy, contracts all that stuff out. now as for mechanics, I can only tell you this first hand, I have triple the ass time at American compared to TWA . could not believe it when I saw mechanics playing games on their laptops an when told go back to work would look a supervisor and say we've already changed our 1 tire. if you wanted us to do more that's over time. LOL

Absolutely correct Bubba.. At NWA we as AMT's never made more than chump change over all the other classifications in fact I made less than a ramp guy until my 5th year. Our license pay was .70 cents per lic for my entire time under the Iam. It went to a 1.50 per ticket under AMFA and at FX where I am now we are non union and my license pay is 8.06 per license. Kinda shows me than being lumped in with everyone else is not in the AMT's best interest.

 

[700UW]

And how did being separate at NW work out for AMFA represented employees?

 

[TWU informer]

And how did being separate at NW work out for AMFA represented employees?

Just read the AMFA/NWA PEB transcript and you will find your answer clearly. You would be hard pressed to ever find such a presentation from any industrial union. Your work group would be politically offended by such a presentation. But I regress, you surely will never agree.

 

[700UW]

I guess you dont realize that AMFA failed at NW, they were outsmarted by the company and thousands lost their jobs.

 

[TWU informer]

I guess you dont realize that AMFA failed at NW, they were outsmarted by the company and thousands lost their jobs.

Maybe you fail to realize that the AMFA idea has still never been tried. The idea is to get ALL AMT's into one Union and that has not been tried so AMFA has not failed. How can an idea FAIL if it is has still never been tried? Yes those NWA AMT's took a stand, and I have no doubt you would have advocated unlimited outsourcing and over 50% of your membership laid-off? Instead of fighting against that demand, you, along with the IAM would stand by and watch as those taking a stand lost their jobs. Just like the Teamsters at Hostess.

 

[700UW]

Thousands lost their jobs.

It wouldnt matter if all AMTs were in one union, if AA goes on strike, US cant, thats how the RLA operates.

I didnt advocate anything, I voted NO on US all three times in chapter 11, and I was on the NC during the second chapter 11 and came out against the final offer after our CBA was abrogated in court.

AMFA was outsmarted by NW, someone had to have known in the two year period that NW was training scabs to replace the Mechanic and Related.

You cant change the fact that AMFA failed at NW, thats the bottom line.

 

[737823]

Thousands lost their jobs.

It wouldnt matter if all AMTs were in one union, if AA goes on strike, US cant, thats how the RLA operates.

I didnt advocate anything, I voted NO on US all three times in chapter 11, and I was on the NC during the second chapter 11 and came out against the final offer after our CBA was abrogated in court.

AMFA was outsmarted by NW, someone had to have known in the two year period that NW was training scabs to replace the Mechanic and Related.

You cant change the fact that AMFA failed at NW, thats the bottom line.

"IAM members will not be duped into standing with AMFA" Robert Roach Jr.

The IAM scabed NWA and happily added ancillary language to the CBAs, you feel guilty about the concessions at USAir and how your scab union helped bust AMFA and don't want to see AMFA succeed at other carriers that's why you come on here cheering on concessions at AA so it will make the IAM at USAir look less bad.

Josh