TWU,TEAMSTERS AND AA

[1AA]

Not Quite What You Wanted To Read Now Is It......

VOTE IBT!

Have A Nice IBT Day!!

We discussed this at work with several TWU and AMFA supporters. We all came to the conclusion that the IBT needs to remove those 1,300 names from the list.
Those names are from furloughed guys with recall rights back to Title I and II. The forgery accusation is another issue that is being kept hush, hush. Sounds to me the IBT is short cards. If they had enough cards with or without the the 1,300 being a facture, the NMB would have called an election by now.

 

[1AA]

I also find it interesting that persons will write something like, "Money Talks Low Wage Walks IAMTWU GOT TO GO," without looking at other facts. Like, the mechanics at US Airways currently enjoy an extremely good pension the finest in the aviation industry the, IAM multi-employer pension fund, one of the highest regarded pensions in the nation. The IAM pension has early out options and a $85.46 multiplier. The IBT pension has no early out and a $49 multiplier.

Compare that with the compensation package at UAL that has no pension and obviously the UAL people need to dump a huge pile of money into a 401 to come anywhere close to the IAM pension. This along with the fact that the IBT people lied to the UAL personnel about their silver chalice Western Conference Pension the WCT which never materialized (there is no pension at UAL after 5 years).

Couple that with the UAL loss of seniority security (they have not after 5 years of IBT representation been integrated by seniority in their systems and the IBT appointed negotiator gave away furloughed mechanics seniority rights.)

Further, the mechanics at UAL lost a bunch of democratic representation, as the IBT has appointed the UAL negotiators and leadership (they were not elected by the membership), and all their locals are usually hundreds of miles from their work stations, i.e. Orlando’s local is Miami.

So, obviously anyone can see as a compensation package the IAM’s is hands down superior compared to anything the IBT can offer. And the agreements between the TWU and the IAM will work to secure that pension for all the mechanics and a first rate wage scale along with seniority and scope protection. In short a compensation package commensurate with the largest airline in the world.

Add to this the arrest of Teamster bosses in New York City last week for racketeering, (they are charged with using union money to finance organized crime and extorting money from their own membership amongst other charges)—and one needs to ask the question to AA employee’s, is this what you really want. To be represented by the IBT the most corrupt union in American history. And people who have lied about every major issue—Think about it my friends, your and our futures depend on it—Do not be duped by Teamster raider’s like our brothers at UAL were!

Travis are you reading this?

 

[1AA]

Apparently my hypothesis was wrong. Thanks for this post 1AA.

.....Weird for you to post something truthful?? Feeling a little honest today?

Truthful? Are you kidding me?
I post info that I read from verified sources or have experienced myself. Many here post their opinions based on what they experienced or read. Don't we all? Opinions is what most of us post and those are the most challenged or controversial ones.

 

[Bob Owens]

T-Bone... for a new guy you sure do bring along a huge load of crap. I can only guess you are one of the same recycled players with a different name. You talk about an IBT $49 multiplier. What is that? I am an IBT mechanic at UA and I do not know about any multiplier. Yup, that's right meathead, we have NO PENSION. Say what you want but we thank the IAM and AMFA for that. The IBT had nothing to do with that.

Does our current 401K defined contribution plan match your defined benefit? NO. IT DOES NOT, AND AS I SAID BEFORE WE CAN THANK THE IAM FOR THEIR PART IN LOOSING OUR PENSIONS. Yup, the IAM sat idly by while our pensions went down the toilet and readily blamed amfa for the loss. I am not defending amfa because they should have done more to stop it, but any of you nimrods who do not see that the IAM was originally to blame are simply stupid. The IAM set us up and they knew it. They knew we were going to drop them for amfa and let our pensions flush down the toilet. Now after all is said and done, the IAM is he first to blame the Teamsters for the loss? STFU

You bird brains sure are quick to blame the one union who had nothing to do with any of this in order to save those that brought it upon us. You are incredibly stupid, but that is obviously a trait you are comfortable with.

Rather than dwell on the past, lets look at improvements over the last two years. What have you gotten at US Air and American? How you doin' there pally? Had any substantial pay raises in the last few years? We are near $40 an hour with FREE medical and a decent 401K company contribution plus 7 weeks of vacation and incredibly lucrative field trip pay. Many mechanics have made over $100K this year already and all of us have made more money straight time than we ever have. My pay check after taxes is around $3,000 every two weeks. How are you doing? That's right, our pension is not the best, but guess what? We can now afford to save money, invest money, pay down debt, and live comfortably NOW. You all think the IAM is the way to go? No problem. Keep them and keep them away from us. While you have your $84.00 multiplier, know that you will have to work an additional 10 years before you can afford to retire with your current wage. Have fun with that.

Must say I agree with your summation on the USAIR /IAM pension. If your pension is based on a wage that you cant live off then you end up with a pension that you cant live off. T-Bone leaves out the clause that says that when you retire you cant work in the industry, so like you noted, you cant retire. Its easy to promise a high multiplier when most people wont live long enough to benefit from it. I wonder, if you do the Math do you really end up better with their pension based on $32/hr than a UAL or SWA guy based at either "near $40" or $45 an hour (with the right to take your money and still work)?

 

[CactUSmx]

Great point BoB I would rather make $40hr and invest my own money that I have total control over at retirement than have The IAM take it over and dictate to me there stipulations in order to collect on it. That's 1 of the reasons were voting Teamsters. We want to rid ourselves of The IAM. I know The Teamsters is not The Best Union out there but the 1 thing I know is they are better than The IAM and The TWU and The Association that would of developed if The Teamster did not act when they did and Im hoping you fellas at AA will vote for either Teamsters or Amfa or whatever you decide but The TWU also needs to go.

 

[1AA]

Great point BoB I would rather make $40hr and invest my own money that I have total control over at retirement than have The IAM take it over and dictate to me there stipulations in order to collect on it. That's 1 of the reasons were voting Teamsters. We want to rid ourselves of The IAM. I know The Teamsters is not The Best Union out there but the 1 thing I know is they are better than The IAM and The TWU and The Association that would of developed if The Teamster did not act when they did and Im hoping you fellas at AA will vote for either Teamsters or Amfa or whatever you decide but The TWU also needs to go.

Well if you think that the Teamsters or AMFA is a good choice why not apply it (AMFA) to your current election? You feel that AMFA is a good choice for us but not for you.
Really?

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Just a reminder on the subject of pensions, the ibt pension plans have the same post retirement work restriction requirements as the IAMNPP.

Just something to think about.

 

[Anomaly]

Just a reminder on the subject of pensions, the ibt pension plans have the same post retirement work restriction requirements as the IAMNPP.

Just something to think about.

There you go again....the WCT plan does have the same restriction, but only for certain applications. Not every airline job is restricted. Beyond that, none of us have seen the new plan that is currently being negotiated for UA mechanics. We do not know if those restrictions exist.

By the way, the restrictions were put in place because plan participants thought it unfair that members would leave union jobs with retirements and then turn around and work at non-union competing shops. In many cases, such as with the WCT fund, the plan members themselves requested these limitations on post retirement work. I called the WCT and asked about it. Feel free to check yourself.

http://www.wctpension.org/contact/call_partic.html

 

[Tex-Mech]

Letter from NMB Referencing Case No. R-7365 AA/IBT/TWU


July 20, 2013

Published 19 Jul, 2013


Participants:
On May 28, 2013, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters-Airline Division (IBT) filed an application and authorization cards alleging a representation dispute involving the Mechanics and Related Employees of American Airlines (Carrier). The employees in question are currently represented by the Transport Workers Union (TWU). Also on May 28, 2013, the Carrier filed a List of Potential Eligible Voters (List) and signature samples of the potential eligible voters.
After examining the authorization cards submitted by the IBT, the undersigned directed that IBT and TWU file challenges to the List or objections with regard to any other matters.
On July 18, 2013, the TWU and IBT jointly requested an extension of time to file their challenges and objections. The request is granted and any challenges and objections must be filed with the Board by 4 p.m. ET on July 23, 2013. Responses to challenges or objections, if any, must be filed by 4 p.m., ET, on August 6, 2013. IBT and TWU are reminded that they must incorporate by reference any previously-filed challenges, objections, and supporting data. Failure to incorporate such allegations by reference will result in the Investigators finding those issues are no longer part of the investigation.
Sincerely,
Maria-Kate Dowling
Investigator
Norman L. Graber
Investigator

With the joint postponements, it is rather obvious now that shortly after the USairways election is complete, the determination on an election at AA will be made. At which point, if the IBT is successful at USairways, the joint TWU/IBT union for the new AA will be announced. :blink:

 

[Rogallo]

With the joint postponements, it is rather obvious now that shortly after the USairways election is complete, the determination on an election at AA will be made. At which point, if the IBT is successful at USairways, the joint TWU/IBT union for the new AA will be announced. :blink:

Double the pleasure!!

 

[Anomaly]

Come on guys, didn't you read the "know it all's" answer to the delay?

I would seriously doubt that the NMB is waiting for voting results from another airline. There most definitely would be a longer delay due to an investigation of forgery of cards. You say according to "our union office" The way you talk, you are already with the teamsters. Currently the TWU is representing AA mechanics, so just what union office are you talking about. It's already been put out that the delay is tied to the forgery/fraudulent cards that the teamsters have collected. But I can see where they would rather not admit such a fiascoe. I too would have indicated that I was not aware of anything.

This guy kills me 🙄 🙄 🙄

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

There you go again....the WCT plan does have the same restriction, but only for certain applications. Not every airline job is restricted. Beyond that, none of us have seen the new plan that is currently being negotiated for UA mechanics. We do not know if those restrictions exist.

By the way, the restrictions were put in place because plan participants thought it unfair that members would leave union jobs with retirements and then turn around and work at non-union competing shops. In many cases, such as with the WCT fund, the plan members themselves requested these limitations on post retirement work. I called the WCT and asked about it. Feel free to check yourself.

http://www.wctpensio...all_partic.html

Perhaps you've forgotten we've had this particular discussion before, and I don't give a damn what the ibt plans particular excuse is. When I've put in my time, and its time for retirement, my plan (whatever that may be) should pay me .... end of story.

Any plan be it IAM, ibt, TWU, whoever, if it places ANY restriction on my post retirement plans its a non-starter, period.

BTW, as I had lengthy discussions with representatives from the WCTPP when it was first being proposed at UAL, I'd like you to back up this statement of yours ...

In many cases, such as with the WCT fund, the plan members themselves requested these limitations on post retirement work.

Link please

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

There you go again....the WCT plan does have the same restriction, but only for certain applications. Not every airline job is restricted. Beyond that, none of us have seen the new plan that is currently being negotiated for UA mechanics. We do not know if those restrictions exist.

By the way, the restrictions were put in place because plan participants thought it unfair that members would leave union jobs with retirements and then turn around and work at non-union competing shops. In many cases, such as with the WCT fund, the plan members themselves requested these limitations on post retirement work. I called the WCT and asked about it. Feel free to check yourself.

http://www.wctpensio...all_partic.html

After my last post, I decided to pay a quick visit to the WCTPP site. ......Not every airline job is restricted.... you say?

http://www.wctpension.org/participants/plan-summary/working-after-you-retire#Anchor-SuspensionBenRules

Directly from the working after retirement section.

Suspendible Employment

[background=#e5e5e5]
EXPLANATION OF SUSPENDIBLE EMPLOYMENT
Suspendible Covered Employment
Your covered employment as a retiree is suspendible employment if it meets all of the following tests. The work must be in:

• A trade or craft in which you worked at any time while covered by the Plan before your retirement, and
• Any industry covered by the Plan when you retired (even if you never worked in that industry before retirement), and
• Any geographic area covered by the Plan when you retired (even if you worked in a different location before retirement).

Definition of covered employment: This is work you perform for an employer who is obligated to make contributions to the Pension Trust on your behalf under a pension agreement.
Suspendible Non-covered Employment
Your non-covered employment (including self-employment) is suspendible employment if it meets all of the following tests. The work must be in:

• A trade or craft in which you worked at any time while covered by the Plan before your retirement, and
• An industry in which you worked at any time while covered by the Plan before your retirement, and
• Any geographic area covered by the Plan when you retired (even if you worked in a different location before retirement).

Definition of non-covered employment: This is work you perform that is not covered under a pension agreement.[/background]​

Once again it seems you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[TRAVIS]

We discussed this at work with several TWU and AMFA supporters. We all came to the conclusion that the IBT needs to remove those 1,300 names from the list.
Those names are from furloughed guys with recall rights back to Title I and II. The forgery accusation is another issue that is being kept hush, hush. Sounds to me the IBT is short cards. If they had enough cards with or without the the 1,300 being a facture, the NMB would have called an election by now.

WOW Supporters From TWU and AMFA came up with this non-bias brilliant conclusion so you saw no need to add a few IBT Supporters in the discussion.

HAVE A HAPPY HAPPY IBT NIGHT!!!

VOTE IBT

 

[TRAVIS]

Travis are you reading this?

IT's Just 700!!! you vote IAM or TWU. Whats funny is he is trig to type in jive.......