US 807 CLT-PHX-HNL today...and tomorrow

[BoeingBoy]

No apology necessary - I sorta figured you meant either fly the plane on a route that would be both profitable and a better fit for it's performance or retire it.

I stand by what I said - they thought/think that the route will be profitable and accepted that it would require a fuel stop some percentage of the time (more in winter, less in summer because of normal wind patterns that change with the seasons). Given the financial shape US is in, if there were a different route that they thought would be more profitable I can't come up with a reason the 767 would not be on that route instead of CLT-HNL. Like I said, it's not like US is awash in cash and need to dispose of some of it.

Some talk about HI being a low yield market, and it is compared to some. But at 16.5 cents a mile for the cheapest non-refundable coach ticket over a month from now, it's profitable with a 70% or less average load factor. Throw in a few FC or refundable coach tickets sold, and the break even load factor drops. Most long haul flights are like that - the yield is less than short haul routes where there's no low cost carrier to set the low fare, but the cost is less per mile too.

You've also got to remember that US' 767's have plenty of range to make HNL non-stop unless the winds are especially strong for a large portion of the flight. The difference between a 50 and 100 kt headwind for the entire cruise portion is effectivley a 350 nm reducton in range. A 150 kt headwind is another 350 nm reduction in range. Even in the winter you can fly around for weeks and not see 100 kt winds at altitude over any big area. Unfortunately, the flight started with over 100 kt winds aloft pretty much all the way to HI.

And for California Girl, yes - Parker/Kirby don't personally do the route planning and probably don't have a clue how to if they tried. But they're at the top of the food chain so the buck stops with them.

Jim

 

[Harry Callahan]

Well today's flt. was showing non-stop. Then just a little while later they were showing the stop in PHX.

FYI, one of the tower agents advised me that they have only been loading around 5,000 lbs. cargo. IMO US can't even plan a 3 ring circus.

 

[Diamondbacks2004]

Flight #807 is still up the air at the Pacific Ocean near California without diversion stop in PHX or LAX for refuel today. What up?

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Do you not know Doug and Scott....puh-lease...look at the DUI record. These two couldn't do a flight routing with some profit if it wasn't for flight planning.

Look at the routing today....this flight is screwed....they are trying to find better speed and can't.

How long are you going to use the DUI as a way to blame Doug? Does it really pertain to this topic? Move on, complain about things that are relevant.

 

[SparrowHawk]

How long are you going to use the DUI as a way to blame Doug? Does it really pertain to this topic? Move on, complain about things that are relevant.

A CEO is alot like a President of a country. In that regard Character does indeed count. Any criminal charges are an appropriate part of a debate of an individuals fitness to hold a specific office, be it CEO or Senator.

However, in the context of this thread it is not or shouldn't be an issue.

What is at issue is the ability of US Airways ability to compete in the Marketplace. A route like this and the current track record does call into question the airlines Management team and their ability to provide the shareholders maximum value for their investment.

 

[Hope777]

Flight #807 is still up the air at the Pacific Ocean near California without diversion stop in PHX or LAX for refuel today. What up?

Funny Thing.... Flightview shows it operating Non-Stop. However, www.usairways.com shows the flight Diverted into PHX.

Does anyone know which is correct?

 

[Bear96]

I am wondering what all the complaining folks are really complaining about. You were seemingly happy when CLT-HNL was added to the schedule, you know the fleet makeup and availability of specific types of aircraft to fly the route, yet you are complaining in a more nonstop manner than the actual flight. Why, especially when it does appear that there is a significant variation in the speed of the normal winter jet stream?

Can anyone tell me why?

I have been wondering this too.

A fuel stop on a couple of days with very unfavorable winds. Big deal.

A lot of people here just like to complain for the sake of complaining and will never be happy.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

I have been wondering this too.

A fuel stop on a couple of days with very unfavorable winds. Big deal.

A lot of people here just like to complain for the sake of complaining and will never be happy.

They are only happy when they can be publicly unhappy. It really gets old. If someone hates the job so much, and they keep doing it, that is just sad.

Every time there is a glitch, they gleefully race to post about how terrible the company is, same old whining every day....

 

[desertsun]

They are only happy when they can be publicly unhappy. It really gets old. If someone hates the job so much, and they keep doing it, that is just sad.

Every time there is a glitch, they gleefully race to post about how terrible the company is, same old whining every day....

I'm curious - do most of us work for the company or industry? I don't - just an interested aviation nutt.

 

[Black Magic]

People like to take pride in there work and the company they work for. Which has been sooo hard to do due lately at US because of managment team which has ill regard to its customers and employees. I don't think its much as complaining as it the employees want change for a respectable operation that isnt the laughing stock of the airlines.

 

[flygirl74]

Funny Thing.... Flightview shows it operating Non-Stop. However, www.usairways.com shows the flight Diverted into PHX.

Does anyone know which is correct?

It looks like #807 left a little late today. Due out at 0945 but actually left at 1216. It isn't showing any diverts in catcrew.

 

[nycbusdriver]

How much would a few sets of longer range engines cost.

You mean the ones mounted on a 777? Plenty.

 

[Charlotte Pilot]

I know it's kinda fun to bash and find fault with how things are going when they don't go perfectly.

But you need to keep in mind that this is a new route for US and they are forging new territory here. There are going to be some hiccups. I have complete faith that the US management will be able to figure this route out. If the plane has to continue to stop for fuel on this route, they will make the necessary changes to eliminate the fuel stop.

Piedmont had the same fuel stop issues back in the 80's when they started flying from CLT-LAX. The aircraft often had to make an "unscheduled" fuel stop in New Mexico. Eventually they figured it out and put the proper aircraft on the route.

Give the guys a chance. This route represents real growth for the company. This company needs growth. It's good for the company and for the employees. The first quarter bookings on this route look very promising and show a potential monthly passenger count of 6000 each way.

 

[Travelpro72]

It is not Usairways first long haul route with strong winds. I see that some feel we wanna complain over any little thing but diverting everyday IS a big deal. It's a big deal as a passenger if you didn't wanna stop in PHX. It's a big deal that US is the only airline diverting. Again due to using the 767 aka "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang". Love the plane but when winds are strong ala ATH-PHL it's weight restricted. Oh wait thats said to be due to Philly weather. Yeah ok. They will never put the a330 be it the 200 or 300 on the CLT-HNL route as it's a HIGH leisure route. No way would they pull it from another route. Bad planning no matter how ya cut it. 🙄

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

The 767s in the US fleet are the 767-200ER version. Boeing's website lists range as 6,385 nmi (12,195 km)Typical city pairs: New York to Beijing. http://www.boeing.com/commercial/767family...pf_200prod.html
The great circle mapper lists CLT-HNL as 4678 nm.http://gc.kls2.com
AFIAK when PI first bought these birds over 20 years ago they did not pay Boeing for the rights to us the full range, or something like that. (Boeing Boy can explain how this works.) Neither did US with the six post merger ships.

What, exactly, is required for US to use the full capability of these aircraft? How much would it cost?