US 807 CLT-PHX-HNL today...and tomorrow

[Hope777]

Since you seem yo know so much, besides a few days with mechanicals, the other delays have been because of strong headwinds!! And yes causing fuel stops. We left on time today and still got in 30 late because of winds. BIG DEAL!! Do you check EVERY flight for chronic delays!! Geez. AND I DARE differ with your assessment of service on this route...at least INFLIGHT!!

If you want to define delays as abysmal service, then the great JetBlue would be extremely abysmal service with their OT performance or Delta for that matter!!

I have Not flown on this route, but as an Employee, I can say I am Not Proud of how this flight has performed.
We (USAirways) compared this service to Delta's ATL-HNL service and have FAILED to Compete thus far.

 

[WhatBag?]

I have Not flown on this route, but as an Employee, I can say I am Not Proud of how this flight has performed.
We (USAirways) compared this service to Delta's ATL-HNL service and have FAILED to Compete thus far.

Well, there are many flights that run poorly operationally. Lest all of you forget the bottom of the barrel in otp in Delta these days, so don't go there. My POINT is don't run off your mouth and say the "service" is abysmal. Say the OPERATION is abysmal because we f/a's AND pilots have worked our butts off on that flight to offer a pretty damn good (at least) inflight experience. Until any of you have sen what we actually DO on that flight and worked it, you need to STFU!! 😛

 

[BoeingBoy]

My POINT is don't run off your mouth and say the "service" is abysmal

So when US puts out a press release saying something like "US Airways begins new, daily, nonstop service between its largest hub in Charlotte, North Carolina and Honolulu, Hawaii on the island of Oahu today", it's talking about what the FA's offer and not a new flight? The FA's providing that service must get really tired walking/swimming all the way to HNL while providing non-stop service!!!

Just curious...do the FA's carry passengers on their backs or pull them in a little red wagon?

Jim

 

[desertsun]

IMHO, One of three things will happen at some point:

1. This flights on-time performance will be (or is) so bad, it will appear on the D.O.T.'s list of chronically late flights. This will put even more increased focus on this situation (i.e. somebody will have to do something about it or the government will get involved).

2. Block times will be "padded" even further, but increasing published flight times for pax. This could possibly push our customers to other alternatives (i.e. DL). Assuming price is equal, does a pax take a flight that is (hypothetically) 9 hours or 12 hours.

3. We will hear in a few months that the service will be dropped for other opportunities effective say post labor day 2009 "due to the revenue environment in the Hawaii market" [yeah, right].

I really really want this to work... it just seems changes are in order one way or the other.

 

[Travelpro72]

Maintenance issues are a pain in the rear and usually pop up close to departure delaying a flight. What we are seeing though is US MARKET the flight between CLT-HNL as NONSTOP to compete DIRECTLY...yes folks DIRECTLY with Delta. Ya know, our main competitor to HNL right next door in ATL. Please save us the crap of headwinds and jet streams. Delta isn't having a problem out of ATL because they use equipment that will make it even on the strongest days. Strong winds are prevalent all winter long so will US simply stop in PHX every single time "chitty chitty bang bang" can't make it? Either compete and offer what is ADVERTISED or get out of the market. It's really that simple. 🙄

 

[wings396]

Since this has been an issue from day one, I say they should just haul out a 330-200 already. I understand what Jim said about it not being feasible from day to day, but maybe they can sub it on a weekly basis until the headwinds calm down a bit. I would assume that the headwinds are somewhat of a seasonal issue, so they could plan the equipment type accordingly. With the winter cuts out of PHL to the Int'l destinations, there should be a way to pull this off. There are now 5 of the 330-200's in the fleet, and the PHL-TLV uses 2 of them. This service is off to a terrible start, and don't think that the passengers won't choose DL on their next trip. :down:

 

[zethya]

IMO, they are caught between a credibility issue with this route and an economic issue with this flight. if the few non-stops have produced acceptable Yields (combined Passenger/Cargo), the management team's competence would be even more questionable than the PHL-PEK fiasco since it appears they have actually committed to and started a potentially successful route without understanding the basics of how to make it work. It's not as if they didn't have performance experience with their unique 767-200s on European services over the past years. If the non-stops have not produced a viable economic future for this route, then US can (as has DL many times) scrap it after a short period. Unfortunately, because of the publicity associated with this flight's shortfall, some may have difficulty accepting that reason.

So other than terminating the flight for economic reasons, what else can be done? The "old" 762s can be upgraded via Boeing - for a price, to carry more fuel (increase the Maximum Take-off Weight). This was explored several years ago and not accepted. At that time however, the 762s were expected to start phasing out about now with the arrival of the 332s and the original A350 delivery schedule. Since that is no longer the case, that may be an alternative - as long as a potential merger is not in the works. Another immediate solution, assuming the flight so far is producing Yields close to the lowest yielding A332 Trans-Atlantic route (very doubtful), is it to do a route equipment swap for the winter and then switch back in the Spring when the West bound environment is more favorable. At that time, if the 762 continues to be a problem, they could set the route as "non-stop" winter and 1 stop summer, or just make it seasonal as are many CLT leisure routes. Anyway, it'll be interesting to observe how this situation is resolved.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I understand what Jim said about it not being feasible from day to day

If you mean me, I didn't say that although it's basically correct. I believe it was nycbusdriver.

It's feasible - putting a 330 and 767I crew on every flight with the appropriate number of extra FA's required for the A330 would cover it - but it would cost more so is therefore not likely to happen.

Jim

 

[Travels2mch]

The FA's providing that service must get really tired walking/swimming all the way to HNL while providing non-stop service!!!

Just curious...do the FA's carry passengers on their backs or pull them in a little red wagon?

Jim

LOL

 

[FutureUScapt]

If they are having problems with this flight, they better seriously rethink the idea of using 767s on FCO-CLT next winter which is 130mi longer than HNL and blocked for 34 min more of flying.

 

[WhatBag?]

Since this has been an issue from day one, I say they should just haul out a 330-200 already. I understand what Jim said about it not being feasible from day to day, but maybe they can sub it on a weekly basis until the headwinds calm down a bit. I would assume that the headwinds are somewhat of a seasonal issue, so they could plan the equipment type accordingly. With the winter cuts out of PHL to the Int'l destinations, there should be a way to pull this off. There are now 5 of the 330-200's in the fleet, and the PHL-TLV uses 2 of them. This service is off to a terrible start, and don't think that the passengers won't choose DL on their next trip. :down:

Please! They will choose what is cheapest!

 

[WhatBag?]

So when US puts out a press release saying something like "US Airways begins new, daily, nonstop service between its largest hub in Charlotte, North Carolina and Honolulu, Hawaii on the island of Oahu today", it's talking about what the FA's offer and not a new flight? The FA's providing that service must get really tired walking/swimming all the way to HNL while providing non-stop service!!!

Just curious...do the FA's carry passengers on their backs or pull them in a little red wagon?

Jim

Jim, don't be coy with me. Saying service is as much a play on words as saying DIRECT instead of nonstop! I stand by my post!

 

[WhatBag?]

Maintenance issues are a pain in the rear and usually pop up close to departure delaying a flight. What we are seeing though is US MARKET the flight between CLT-HNL as NONSTOP to compete DIRECTLY...yes folks DIRECTLY with Delta. Ya know, our main competitor to HNL right next door in ATL. Please save us the crap of headwinds and jet streams. Delta isn't having a problem out of ATL because they use equipment that will make it even on the strongest days. Strong winds are prevalent all winter long so will US simply stop in PHX every single time "chitty chitty bang bang" can't make it? Either compete and offer what is ADVERTISED or get out of the market. It's really that simple. 🙄

Do you REALLY think DAL OR US really care that this is a competing flight.

FWIW, the check airman on my flight told me there have been changes to the flight paths that have to do with better planning instead of the old PHX method that was forecasting winds in the US from CLT to PHX and not taking in account other routing paths. The reliability is getting better now.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Do you REALLY think DAL OR US really care that this is a competing flight.

FWIW, the check airman on my flight told me there have been changes to the flight paths that have to do with better planning instead of the old PHX method that was forecasting winds in the US from CLT to PHX and not taking in account other routing paths. The reliability is getting better now.

Not to be one of the Nattering Nabobs of Negativism on here but wouldn't the appropriate time to do better planning be BEFORE you put actual paying customers on a plane?

Seriously don't airlines have access to historical data regarding weather and their own internal records on headwinds versus fuel burn that would enable them to become more efficient or is this just wishful thinking?

 

[SOA2]

I think WhatBag is correct about the new routing. Yesterday the flight path crossed central Iowa, well north of earlier flight paths.