US Hubs Are Sub Par?

vantheman63

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Aug 30, 2007
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A little birdy told me....

.... that as much as the US team likes their route network, the competition have an advantage with the location of their hubs...hubs like ORD, DFW, ATL and EWR are stronger markets then CLT, PHL & PHX...therefore, US can't generate the same RASM as the competition. The hubs you all have are just okay....but because they aren't that great, you all have to keep costs low.

So....US can't make as much....because of the location of the hubs?

Or....maybe....just MAYBE....is it the product itself? I'm not saying it is, I'm not bashing...but this does seem like yet another in a long, long line of reasons for "sub paritis." That is, the disease of spread sheet management that will save 10 cents to lose $10.00, thus creating a sub par product.

I guess all of that rhetoric about putting money into PHL was....just lip service? And sorry CLT, you've been downgraded...next thing you know, STL and CVG will be better than you! PHX? Well, we all know WN kicking a$$ is the real reason it's hard to generate revenue there.

Fascinating...and of course, since it was just a rumor, who knows if the above is even true. But if it is, sorry that all the US hubs are so....need to be so cheap...since they are clearly not up to the level of greatness of the others.

"Hub Envy" anyone? Is that a treatable disease? Any other way to treat it other than making excuses and managing via cheapness?
 
Attracting, keeping and maintaining those business relationships should be a front burner issue for those looking to improve RASM at US Airways. It's a lot harder to move the bottom price point $10 then it is to move the top price point $300.00. The problem now is that with the service level/fees/lack of perks & amenities few are willing to pay the premium.
Agree with this Piney...

I think the thing that saddens me is what this says to the employees and the people that make US work...

Here's what it would sound like in the NFL....

"We don't really have the stadium to attract fans, nor a team that can win, which would also attract fans...so, lets just hope we can be competitive."
 
Agree with this Piney...

I think the thing that saddens me is what this says to the employees and the people that make US work...

Here's what it would sound like in the NFL....

"We don't really have the stadium to attract fans, nor a team that can win, which would also attract fans...so, lets just hope we can be competitive."

I don't see this idea is being an excuse for the poor product, etc. Aren't they just saying that other airlines have access to more high yielding revenue by hubbing in larger, more business oriented cities (NYC, ATL as opposed to PHX)? That's all I get out of it...
 
This is old news. Wolf/Gangwal hammered away at this on their "Crossroads" tour over 10 years ago: CLT & PIT were near the bottom of the industry in generating O & D traffic, PHL was much better but still not top tier. And remember they used to always talk about needing a midwest hub.
 
This is old news. Wolf/Gangwal hammered away at this on their "Crossroads" tour over 10 years ago: CLT & PIT were near the bottom of the industry in generating O & D traffic, PHL was much better but still not top tier. And remember they used to always talk about needing a midwest hub.

Agreed. They aren't offering up any type of "lip service" to hide their revenue shortcomings (due to product, nickel & diming, etc..as Van says), they are saying hubbing in cities with more O & D has its benefits, and US has to work harder to make up those shortcomings.
 
The subject of this thread has been hashed, rehashed and regurgitated for decades. <Snore>
 
Go back to the prior point regarding focus cities:

The differentiators are BOS, LGA, DCA that gave old US their advantage. The problem is that now the product has been cheapened to the point where it's harder to get the traditional revenue premium for short haul east coast business people that US has enjoyed.
True. Very true. In addition to those three cities, you could probably include a LOT of cities in the Northeast that used to be US' high revenue powerhouses. Not so much anymore, and the product is definitely a problem.

I think Tempe is instead speaking of their weaker hubs, as opposed to the other legacies. Everyone agrees that premium revenue is declining; US has hubs that were/ are weaker to begin with (less O&D, possible more leisure oriented?) than other legacies. PHX or CLT will never be an ATL/ ORD/ NYC.

If all the airline products were equally wonderful, US would still be at a disadvantage.
 
So how does US expect to remedy this problem? Seriously.
Thank you Travelpro72....I think you may be one of a very few that "got it."

Look, maybe PHL is at a disadvantage to ORD due to the fact it's the 3rd largest city vs. PHL, the 5th largest....

And just because CLT is a larger city than ATL...and in fact MEM & BWI are bigger than ATL....well, lets put that aside for a moment....and forget O&D traffic...afterall, is CO not successfully builidng CLE?

Thats not, in my humble opinion, the real question.

The question is WHY do these sand fleas constantly talk about what can't be done and talk about ONE solution? Cost cutting? Are there not other opportunities to fix issues? Other than cost?

For the love of God...I don't get it...nor do I get or understand why I care...since I've moved on...

I guess I see this stuff and just shake my head and want to vent.

My apologies to those who are sick of the venting.
 
Actually, all of the airlines are focusing on cost. The recent capacity cuts are an example of that. CO WAS successfully building CLE- now everything is slowly but surely going to ExpressJet.

DL WAS successfully building CVG- now everything is slowly but surely going to the regional. Portion of the airport's gates are being dumped by DL. And DL's "premier" hub? Depending on how they battle it out w/ the airport regarding costs, DL could move a lot of traffic to MEM. ATL doesn't have that much O/D that people like to talk about it. It's blown out of proportion.

I don't see PHL in any disadvantage either, at least not from ORD.

-Kinglobjaw
 
Thank you Travelpro72....I think you may be one of a very few that "got it."

Look, maybe PHL is at a disadvantage to ORD due to the fact it's the 3rd largest city vs. PHL, the 5th largest....

And just because CLT is a larger city than ATL...and in fact MEM & BWI are bigger than ATL....well, lets put that aside for a moment....and forget O&D traffic...afterall, is CO not successfully builidng CLE?

Thats not, in my humble opinion, the real question.

The question is WHY do these sand fleas constantly talk about what can't be done and talk about ONE solution? Cost cutting? Are there not other opportunities to fix issues? Other than cost?

For the love of God...I don't get it...nor do I get or understand why I care...since I've moved on...

I guess I see this stuff and just shake my head and want to vent.

My apologies to those who are sick of the venting.

No. I get it, too. You are frustrated with the product and the treatment you have received, yet you still care about the company (employees?) as a whole. That's admirable, and most of us here appreciate it.

Sometimes I agree with Tempe, sometimes I don't (don't get me started on the non- chalant attitude towards a joint contract for us; the fact that there is such a disparity in contracts with East v West is disgusting. I make myself stay out of the AFA thread :lol: ) I do see what mgmt is saying here tho, and as pointed out, this revenue disadvantage was pointed out before HP even entered the picture. I saw the presentation on the Hub where they state they need to focus more on lowering CASM, and I respect that... just not sure how you go about that....
 
And just because CLT is a larger city than ATL...and in fact MEM & BWI are bigger than ATL....well, lets put that aside for a moment

CLT and MEM don't have bigger metro area populations than ATL according to the US Census. Population within the city limits, maybe, but if I live in Decatur, GA, I'm still flying DL from ATL.

Rank SMSA Population
4 Washington--Baltimore, DC--MD--VA--WV CMSA 7,608,070
6 Philadelphia--Wilmington--Atlantic City, PA--NJ--DE--MD CMSA 6,188,463
11 Atlanta, GA MSA 4,112,198
14 Phoenix--Mesa, AZ MSA 3,251,876
34 Charlotte--Gastonia--Rock Hill, NC--SC MSA 1,499,293
44 Memphis, TN--AR--MS MSA 1,135,614

It'll be interesting to see what happens when CO -- currently the apparent VFF darling -- succumbs to the pressure and/or has it time on the ropes. Remember...US was once the VFF darling, too. Every dog has its day. VFFs are as fickle as many Wake Forest fans.
 
CLT and MEM don't have bigger metro area populations than ATL according to the US Census. Population within the city limits, maybe, but if I live in Decatur, GA, I'm still flying DL from ATL.

Rank SMSA Population
4 Washington--Baltimore, DC--MD--VA--WV CMSA 7,608,070
6 Philadelphia--Wilmington--Atlantic City, PA--NJ--DE--MD CMSA 6,188,463
11 Atlanta, GA MSA 4,112,198
14 Phoenix--Mesa, AZ MSA 3,251,876
34 Charlotte--Gastonia--Rock Hill, NC--SC MSA 1,499,293
44 Memphis, TN--AR--MS MSA 1,135,614

It'll be interesting to see what happens when CO -- currently the apparent VFF darling -- succumbs to the pressure and/or has it time on the ropes. Remember...US was once the VFF darling, too. Every dog has its day. VFFs are as fickle as many Wake Forest fans.
City Population (referncing the US Census Bureau)

18 Memphis Tennessee 674,028
19 Charlotte North Carolina 671,588

33 Atlanta Georgia 519,145