US Pilot Labor Thread 10/5 to 10/12 KEEP ON TOPIC

[BottomFeeder]

Tuck,

If you are going to make up or intentionally misstate facts don’t make it so easy to disprove your lies. All anyone has to do is look at the published list.

USAPA DOH list shows Randy McNerlin P0001 as number 848. Not 700 something. That is a drop from 517 to 848. A loss of 331 numbers. That is our number 1 guy. The fence is not solid or permanent. So there is a very good chance that any number of those 847 pilots could come to PHX and move him from that number 1 position.

Next time you decide to speak, check the facts before repeating lies.

First you make the point that Tuck wrote a lie which is incorrect. McNerlin P0001 is GONE and if he had not retired he would be currently #713 on the list. He was put on the list right where his DOH fit. In fact he went to the front of his DOH class since he was the oldest one on that date.

Stick to the facts

 

[cleardirect]

It's DEAN COLLELO(sp)...not COVELO

Granted Colello

Was Airways IN LIQUIDATION?...or just NEAR liquidation, you said we WERE IN LIQUIDATION...I submit an untruth as well...

Yes liquidating. Doug Parker said it in several crew news. Not my words Doug’s

Was the 22 orders and 7 year upgrades AFTER 9/11? or before...

Post 9/11 pre merger

 

[EastUS]

Yes liquidating. Doug Parker said it in several crew news. Not my words Doug’s

Ah!..Well..since he's the designated soothsayer then...How do you so blithely disregard his prognostications as to where..or even IF..AWA would be without the merger? How about his far, far earlier, well pre oil spike observation = "As a three year first officer...you probably wouldn't have a job"/etc.

Was USAir a mess? = Definately. Was AWA an ongoing, great success with a bright future? = Spare me, and anyone with even any tiny semblance of a brain.

Two drowning swimmers washed ashore by a rogue wave should have far better sense than to argue over supposedly "saving" each other...or anyone.

PS: While we're going over what Mr. Parker has said: "But the negotiations really just started in earnest….a couple of months ago…because we just got to one union." Flight Attendant: "But what about the seniority list?" Doug Parker: "Yeah, but that will be part of a contract."...Not my words, Mr. Parkers.

 

[cleardirect]

First you make the point that Tuck wrote a lie which is incorrect. McNerlin P0001 is GONE and if he had not retired he would be currently #713 on the list. He was put on the list right where his DOH fit. In fact he went to the front of his DOH class since he was the oldest one on that date.

Stick to the facts

So from the Nicolau, Randy goes from number 518 to number 848.


Facts are, the fantasy list wants to place our number 1 pilot at 848.

 

[EastUS]

Facts are, the fantasy list wants to place our number 1 pilot at 848.

So..I guess that your number one pilot just hasn't been around nearly as long as many others have here. What's your point?

 

[nic4us]

Just a few points:

1) the "re-ordering" of previously determined lists didn't occur because those lists had been codified and finalized by inclusion in several contracts over the years...(you'll note that hasn't occured with your Nic)

2) Nic4us...pardon my demeanor, but the 330's were never coming to AWA in PHX or LAS...(pre-merger expectations is what we are talking about here, right?)...PRE-MERGER, AWA had no wide-bodies, no TA flying, no 76's....so I'm not following your logic about this.

3) Making any assertations about "pre-merger expectations" only paints the AWA guys into a smaller corner...narrowbodies in LAS and PHX...with possible BK/liquidation in the future.
Likewise, with the East, the widebodies were already in the career paths of many, were being flown by many, we had been BK several times, and possibly going to liquidate soon.

Now, if you want to discuss POST-merger expectations, whereby we both "saved each other"..then you have to assign a time-tested method to provide a fair and equitable seniority list integration taking into account DOH/LOS principles, and provide opportunity for POST merger possibilities to all....East and West.

The #1 AWA pilot can bid the 330 if he can hold it....so can you. Just like it works within your own seniority system in PHX and LAS...

Nic in no way did that, it was an injustice that flies in the face of all union-based principles, and why DAL/NW are using 3 guys instead of 1...and why UAL is revisiting the very position that THEY THEMSELVES were instrumental in changing in the first place.

Of course, it's just my opinion.

machtuck

My logic is simple. You argue that AWE had no widebodies on property to bring to the merger, therefore there was no expectation. The same logic would dictate that east furloughs were not on property and would also have no expectation. A DOH list puts 250 furloughed in front of a 20 year continuously employed 10 years as captain west pilot, 450 furloughs in front of a 12 year continously employed with more LOS and 8 years as captain west pilot, and all furloughs in front of Dave O'Dell who was on property at the merger but is now furloughed while new hires and those who were not here at the merger are still working.

Sure lets talk post-merger expectations. Mine were simple, any pilot in a position junior to mine will stay in a position junior to mine for the duration of my career. Those in a position senior to mine will be offered opportunities before they are offered to me. I just cannot figure how you reason a furlough with less LOS is indeed a position senior to mine.

what flies in the face of union-based principals is your illegaly elected association and thier determination to steal jobs from fellow pilots.

 

[EastUS]

what flies in the face of union-based principals is your illegaly elected association and thier determination to steal jobs from fellow pilots.

So suddenly...length of service actually matters to you out west? An amusing flip-flop right there, but no matter. Are you even possibly now suggesting that there are any remaining furloughed from the pre-merger east list left to factor in? What purpose is there in considering any that no longer work here by way of refusing recall? This just becomes increasingly more absurd by the moment.

A previous statement from nic4us = Jul 25 2008, 12:41 AM "had the arbitrated award gone date of hire, I could have lived with that." Now??... It's "what flies in the face of union-based principals is your illegaly elected association and thier determination to steal jobs from fellow pilots" I leave the reading audience to their own conclusions as to the consistency of the thinking involved here.....

 

[ManDachine]

nic4us "He had flow 4 engine widebody across the Pacific before for this company, something no east pilot had done"

I'm not trying to start a fight, but there are East guys that flew for Braniff. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they fly 747's, DC-8's and 707/720's? Now for those who started there airline careers in a CRJ, those are all aircraft that have four engines and fly across the ocean.

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

nic4us "He had flow 4 engine widebody across the Pacific before for this company, something no east pilot had done"

I'm not trying to start a fight, but there are East guys that flew for Braniff. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they fly 747's, DC-8's and 707/720's? Now for those who started there airline careers in a CRJ, those are all aircraft that have four engines and fly across the ocean.

Nice try - the poster was referring to AWA vs AAA pilots, and flying within their respective companies - period.

Can't you folks pay attention?

 

[john john]

In fact this pilot flew the 747 for AWE, and could have expected to bid the 340 that was supposed to come for the china route.

Was the A340 confirm orders at HP and/or on the property. Did HP had the china route awarded
HP had 4 747 for 2 years then they outsourced the work not much there

 

[john john]

machtuck

My logic is simple. You argue that AWE had no widebodies on property to bring to the merger, therefore there was no expectation. The same logic would dictate that east furloughs were not on property and would also have no expectation. A DOH list puts 250 furloughed in front of a 20 year continuously employed 10 years as captain west pilot, 450 furloughs in front of a 12 year continously employed with more LOS and 8 years as captain west pilot, and all furloughs in front of Dave O'Dell who was on property at the merger but is now furloughed while new hires and those who were not here at the merger are still working.

Were their widebodies and/or on the property with a registration # and then pickle aka furlough

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

Were their widebodies and/or on the property with a registration # and then pickle aka furlough

Huh?

 

[electricjet98]

Also, maybe you are unclear on what a VACANCY is.....any "cross-system" bidding is on a VACANCY basis ....so without any PHX CA vacancies, tell me how he loses his number 1 spot?...Your co-pilots are frothing at the mouth over their upgrades...are you suggesting they won't upgrade to fill that vacancy?...

physician, heal thyself.

Hmmmm...so using DOH, suppose the company decides it needs to furlough another 500. Now we all know where those 500 will come from using your DOH list, so PHX and LAS are now reduced to 1200 pilots. BUT, the company in it's infinite wisdom feels it needs 1500 pilots in PHX & LAS. Are not 300 VACANCIES created?

 

[john john]

Huh?

Furloughs were on the property active whole with seniority trance aircraft orders were not

 

[prechilill]

Furlough were on the property active whole with seniority trance aircraft orders were not

And now we know why the Department of Education mandated standardized testing in all schools...