US Pilot Labor Thread 11/3-11/9

[BoeingBoy]

I said the quoted behavior is easily actionable as illegal....you change the subject.

That was a reply to the post immediately above it.

And being a retired ALPA shill, I know you have all day and night to argue, I have a life away from this forum, but I'll be watching.

Those that have facts on their side debate facts, those that don't debate personalities...

Jim

 

[des nudo]

Interfering, yes...recommending, no. And perhaps you're confusing this with interference with the union's organizing drive.

And for the record it doesn't matter what the name of the union is.

Jim

I am not confused mate, an organized group of members (AWAPPA, or AOL) who solicit "dues" and membership as a representative body of pilots WITHIN an already legally represented union who "recommends " against the LEGAL union membership is INTERFERING with union business...the application process of an ALREADY established and legal union. ILLEGAL.

You're as bad as they are, mate.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I don't think usapa can just appoint someone w/o their consent, so aren't we back where we started.

I don't know if they can or not, but would agree it wouldn't be a good idea to appoint someone unwilling.

The number I saw was 600 - just seems that out of over a third of the West pilots someone might be willing - after all, joining USAPA may not be very popular out West either.

Jim

 

[des nudo]

That was a reply to the post immediately above it.



Those that have facts on their side debate facts, those that don't debate personalities...

Jim

"I've given thousands to AWAPPA and Leonidis LLC...Not one penny to the half brained, hair triggered, group of mongoloid keystone cops you call a "union". How many have been fired by the tough guy fake union anyway?...ZERO!"

Quite right, mate...I can easily see why you align with those that don't engage in that behavior..

spot-on

 

[Metroyet]

he one of the finest, honest, sincere, intelligent and social persons I have been honored to know...

If you think you hit a nerve- you're damn right!!!

I Apologize. Bad choice of words. Didn't mean to be offensive.

If any organizing/administrative member of USAPA had an ounce of any of the qualities your brother has, we wouldn't be in this mess.

I understand what it feels like when a nerve gets hit. It's been getting hit every day since April 17th...The day a band of wanna be thugs convinced the masses that they can wield the RLA like an axe and do with it whatever they want. Cowards all.

I will never support USAPA, (in it's present form) financially or otherwise. Quite the opposite. I'm working hard against it.

 

[N905TW]

Your Gen-X anger blinded you to my point. Turn it into a East-West argument if you will.



If families and marriages fall apart over a stupid furlough, dont know what to say, TW.



We dont take much pleasure in any of this furlo stuff, TW. Thats why USAPA filed 2 TA disputes. If USAPA wins, TW, you win. No furlough.

My Gen-X anger? Do not assume anything about me or my background. You know what happens when you assume.

Remember that for the past 3 years it has been your East pilot group constantly tossing out the barbs and underhanded comments about the "young, unqualified, only ex Mesa and Trans States, couldn't get hired anywhere else" pilot group. One look at the make up of our new hire class from 2004 may change your mind a bit, but who am I kidding, you will never change your view of us.


As for the marriages and family issues, I thank my lucky stars that things are ok on that front at my house. I was able to secure another job doing what I love - flying. However, if you don't think that all of this is taking a toll on some of my friends and fellow furloghees, please try this tonight: When you sit down to dinner with your family, how about starting off by telling them you are all moving to Qatar or Dubai. Or tell your kids that Daddy will be gone 6 weeks at a time now to fly his airplane in Vietnam or China. See how well that goes over.


It's nice that you have faith in USAPA and the filing of the 2 T/A disputes. How long did that take? What did the judge say last week about those disputes and the predictable outcomes? Again, since it is mainly the West taking the hit on these furloughs, USAPA couldn't have cared less. 175 WEST pilots to be sent packing out of seniority order, and for months not a word from the supposed "union". Ten EAST pilots are asked about fuel burns and USAPA riots.

Why don't you all just come clean and admit what everyone else already knows - that USAPA is only out for East interests.

 

[BoeingBoy]

So now you're saying that it's illegal for any group of pilots that have a common interest to form a "club" just because there's a union on the property? Interesting take.

You'll notice that it is not illegal to refrain from joining the union, not pay dues, and not sign a dues check-off form. So nothing illegal is being recommended. It is not interference with the effort of USAPA to get elected - no recommendation not to sign a card was there? It is not a recommendation for illegal action that would interfere with USAPA's ongoing representational activities. Just a recommendation about which legal rights a pilot should take.

Being down under, you're probably not aware of the info that USAPA was putting out in it's efforts to unseat the previous CBA. If you think AWAPA's actions are illegal, you should be seeking that the organizers of USAPA be thrown in jail. Of course, I'm sure you think it was proper for USAPA...

Jim

 

[des nudo]

So now you're saying that it's illegal for any group of pilots that have a common interest to form a "club" just because there's a union on the property? Interesting take.

You'll notice that it is not illegal to refrain from joining the union, not pay dues, and not sign a dues check-off form. So nothing illegal is being recommended. It is not interference with the effort of USAPA to get elected - no recommendation not to sign a card was there? It is not a recommendation for illegal action that would interfere with USAPA's ongoing representational activities. Just a recommendation about which legal rights a pilot should take.

Being down under, you're probably not aware of the info that USAPA was putting out in it's efforts to unseat the previous CBA. If you think AWAPA's actions are illegal, you should be seeking that the organizers of USAPA be thrown in jail. Of course, I'm sure you think it was proper for USAPA...

Jim
[/quote]
The internet is the great equalizer...don't you think?

A "club"..you say? like a corvette club with decals on the bonnets? A sewing "club"?....

here's their club(s):

Leonidas LLC Objectives
We, the former pilots of America West Airlines, hereby declare the following:

1. We fully demand all of our legal rights, in their entirety, within the new US Airways, or any successor airline.
2. We require full, good faith compliance with our existing contract, the Transition Agreement and ALPA merger policy from all parties.
3. We will not allow our rights to be trod upon by USAPA, the East MEC, ALPA National, or the Company.
4. We will aggressively seek any and all available legal remedies against any party which might seek to dilute our rights.
5. We will not tolerate discrimination against the pilots of America West in any form, including the dilution of the Nicolau Award by any means, contractual or otherwise.
6. We will not engage in fruitless debates over matters already settled.
7. We will remain perpetually poised to aggressively defend our rights until such
time when we are no longer threatened.

AWAPPA OBJECTIVES

AWAPPA will educate pre-merger America West pilots about USAPA and relevant events taking place, while providing recommendations that will ultimately lead to USAPA’s downfall
America West Airlines Pilots Protective Alliance (AWAPPA) has been formed to engage in an aggressive strategy to undermine all of USAPA’s discriminatory acts against pre-merger America West pilots

Is this what you had in mind when you say "club"?

Nice try, mate.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I notice that you completely skipped the part where you're horrified at USAPA's activities while they were trying to displace ALPA as the CBA - that list is a pretty good paraphrasing of what USAPA said.

Seems you care more about who does it than what is done....

Jim

 

[des nudo]

I notice that you completely skipped the part where you're horrified at USAPA's activities while they were trying to displace ALPA as the CBA - that list is a pretty good paraphrasing of what USAPA said.

Seems you care more about who does it than what is done....

Jim

As fun as this is with you, I do have some work to do, but I'll just lave this with you: when USAPA's 2 years are up, the pilots are free and clear to organize another bargaining agent...just as USAPA was formed after how many ALPA years on the property? Until then, activities as described by AWAPPA are indeed interfering with USAPA and it's business by their own description...or did you gloss over than part?

tit for tat Jim...tit for tat.

I'll give you the last word as I know you'll take it anyway...

 

[BoeingBoy]

tit for tat Jim...tit for tat.

Then I'll be waiting patiently for your charge of illegal behavior against USAPA (and other's like 'dumpalpa') for their comments and recommendations before becoming the CBA. Don't worry, though, I won't be holding my breath because I think it'll be a long time before you treat actions the same rather than being more concerned with who undertakes the actions.

Jim

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Completely unbiased.

I am AOL/AWAPPA and I approve of this message. 🙄 :blink:

I understand that usapswatch is east pilots. I also understand that more and more east line pilots are starting to ask questions.

 

[Megasnoop]

"mongoloid keystone cops"- Well, I have to tell you I take offense to that. I have a so called " mongoloid " brother (term used 35 years ago-probably older than you are) and he one of the finest, honest, sincere, intelligent and social persons I have been honored to know. His personality towers above 3/4 of the posters on these webboards. Why don't you go back to school and learn what "labels" you so easily throw around are. Oh, i'll help you- It's called Downs Syndrome. I've never said this or thought to do this before, but, you sir, are not welcomed in my cockpit. If you think you hit a nerve- you're damn right!!!

Jetjok, for the West its all about how low one can go, how many insults they can throw. Its what children do when they dont have an intellegent argument.


Regarding the latest Metroyet low-brow post:

Exactly what does a "west" guy get for his money?

not being fired comes to mind


Correct me If I'm wrong but here is all USAPA has offered the West, remember USAPA has spent a grand total of 4 hours in the last 12 months in phoenix promoting itself as a "union for all US Air Pilots"

so let me get this straight, it makes sense for USAPA to waste money coming out to PHX when you intimidate anyone who wants to represent you?

1. Pilots getting sued via RICO

YEP, stones, feces, phones blocked, you betcha

2. Tyranny of the Majority

YEP, if you dont like it, then DFR us

3. Zero chance of ever getting a contract

we could have a contract tomorrow if USAPA would take West parity. but we wont. problem is, we dont have the Section 6 stick for another year. Parker knows it.

4. A Staple Job.

your #1 below our #3500? I dont think so.

5. Continually changing rules to suit the East

not following that one, metro. you mean the constitutional change to close the susie loophole? What were we supposed to do? Let susie continue to not pay dues?

6. Class Action Law Suits

if it stops sabotage, sounds good to me. but just to be honest, law suits (plural) are what you are doing. Weve only filed one.

7. An immature hissy fit spelled out in USA Today.

it stopped the fuel savings harassment and Parker had a meeting of the minds with his underlings. USAPA took a stand, unlike ALPO

8. Furloughs out of seniority

ah, the violation of the TA thing. well see how that one plays out in court. better chance with the TA arbitrations

9. The Disregarding of all former obligations...correction, all the obligations that a certain segment of the East wishes it hadn't already agreed to but did anyway

not following that one either

So with this basic and irrefutable list in mind, answer me this..

IRREFUTABLE? Another accusation passed off as truth

Why the "F" would any West pilot in their right mind actually PAY MONEY to support this regime?!!

staying employed comes to mind

If the Tables were turned, nobody on the East would pay either.

theyll be fired too. USAPA sent termination demands for East pilots as well

Common Sense. The Easties can't hide behind the RLA anymore. The RLA was never intended to be used as a lever against a minority pilot group from a larger one.

dont like it, dont pay. get fired. if you think were violating the RLA, file a DFR. oh almost forgot, your not represented, thats the “Râ€￾ in DFR

I've given thousands to AWAPPA and Leonidis LLC...

good for you, big guy. soon youll be giving to USAPA as well

Not one penny to the half brained, hair triggered, group of mongoloid keystone cops you call a "union".

then youll get fired

How many have been fired by the tough guy fake union anyway?...ZERO!

none so far. Wait til we get rid of the susie loophole this month. then well see

I love how you guys think you're intimidating...Kinda cute like when a kitten attacks it's own shadow...

no, its your own pilots who are being intimidated into not being reps. that investigation is ongoing. mitch has more to worry about than furlo. The Snoop, aka Al the aviator

 

[des nudo]

"When is a new union not a new union? When it’s a limited liability corporation, privately owned, operated and funded. That’s how the America West Airlines Pilots Protective Alliance describes itself, and it’s careful not to use the word represent when it talks about what it will do for the pilots of the former America West Airlines."


I surely do love the research capabilities of the internet...it keeps us all informed. So, is this the basis of the insurance policy the west are using to have a "union" thats not a "union" of their own?...One that collects dues, and elects it's own officers?...

If it looks like a duck, acts like a duck, and smells like a duck...it's the AWAPPA WEST UNION...hiding behind an LLC title?....it will never hold up in court if USAPA sues.

AWAPPA is an Arizona Limited Liability Corporation created, operated, and privately funded by pre-merger America West pilots. Represented by the highly qualified law firm Bredhoff & Kaiser P.L.L.C., AWAPPA will use any and all resources (legal and political) to ensure that USAPA fails

 

[des nudo]

I am not confused mate, an organized group of members (AWAPPA, or AOL) who solicit "dues" and membership as a representative body of pilots WITHIN an already legally represented union who "recommends " against the LEGAL union membership is INTERFERING with union business...the application process of an ALREADY established and legal union. ILLEGAL.

You're as bad as they are, mate.

I repost for emphasis: when was the last time you met a "company" who collected DUES and MEMBERSHIPS other than Costco or a gym?

"Regardless of that recommendation, we anticipate that it will take some time before AWAPPA is able to solicit membership applications and install a dues billing structure".

Thinly veiled as an "LLC"...AWAPPA presupposes to be a "union within a union" as does the "AOL" group....equally illegal when pressed. You AWA guys should be thankful USAPA does not pursue this in court.