US Pilot Labor Thread 11/3-11/9

[GorgeousGeorge]

But not in the immediate future, it would appear.

Another East "shrink-to-profitability", "go backwards" permanent base bid was just published for February. Fewer lines, fewer pilots...

If the operations remain separate, and the East keeps publishing permanent base bids like the ones over the past several years, the East will eventually disappear altogether, and the West's problem will be solved.

Sorry, but that isn't exclusive to the EAST but based on the schedule reductions and furloughs currently being enacted and it sure isn't as bad on the East. DEC makes 1st anniversary of age 65 and at some point, early retirements will come into play. The one in APR/MAY of next year will be representative of where things are headed for 09. It will include begging of staffing the 5 A330-200's going East as well as increased Trans Atlantic with PHL-TLV, CLT-CDG, PHL-OSL, PHL-BHX and the rest of the seasonal European shift. Unlike the bid you reference where only 5 furloughs account for the 30+ reduction in head count(the rest were mostly medical and a few early retirement), it will be interesting to see how the future bid accounts for the higher staffing requirements for international bid positions as well what will likely be an increasing number of people leaving the bid via medical and more early retirements because of the longevity of the East group.

If you are truly concerned about a "shrink to profitability", "go backwards" scenario, I would look to the past for placement of your concerns. Does AA/AirCal, US/PSA, ring a bell? Given the current economic weakness, I know which flying I would be more concerned about being at risk. It isn't PHL, CLT, BOS, DCA, or LGA.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

I may be slightly mistating, but as you point out they are facts. Facts with video evidence to back them up. Prior to the NMB vote USAPA proposed a method in which they could offer a cost nuetral contract as a strategy to throw out the Nic.(i.e. they made a campaign promise and ran on a primary platform of overthrowing the Nic)

If it is not thrown out now there may be no appeal. Unless the company decides to do so. remember they are enjoined with USAPA in this case. Kind of a strange bedfellows thing dont you think.

ALPA's merger policy is more workable than USAPA's, especially considering the new law. I believe what you meant to say was it was the West unwillingness to role over and see it your way that did ALPA in. Or perhaps you are further supporting my argument by saying ALPA was doomed because it was your way or the highway for ALPA and the West, Nic be damned, again by your own admittence the primary reason for USAPA's existance, overthrowing the Nic.

I'll make it plain for you.

Mistating the facts = Lying.

I NEVER said it was the main reason. I did say it was the reason that finally precipitated ALPA's defeat. The "straw that broke the camels back" so to speak.

There. Now go do your homework.

 

[ableoneable]

I'll make it plain for you.

Mistating the facts = Lying.

I NEVER said it was the main reason. I did say it was the reason that finally precipitated ALPA's defeat. The "straw that broke the camels back" so to speak.

There. Now go do your homework.

Oldie reading someone the riot act on what lying means.

Hilarious.

QUOTE(oldiebutgoody @ Nov 7 2007, 09:52 AM)
The arbitrator ignored all of it, even choosing to use an incorrect seniority list for the East guys which was submitted by the West side. Looks pretty slanted to me, and I'm a bystander. ALPA's entire goal in this was to destroy the East guys seniority for future mergers. If the Nic

Are you still a bystander or are you an east pilot?

Pay no attention to Oldie, he has a difficult time keeping track of his own lies.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Oldie reading someone the riot act on what lying means.

Hilarious.




Are you still a bystander or are you an east pilot?

Pay no attention to Oldie, he has a difficult time keeping track of his own lies.

Did they show you how to wear the paper hat yet?

Don't forget, thank the customers before they leave the drive-thru.

How many time are you gonna keep bringing up your meaningless point?

 

[ableoneable]

Did they show you how to wear the paper hat yet?

Don't forget, thank the customers before they leave the drive-thru.

How many time are you gonna keep bringing up your meaningless point?

I don't know why you keep talking about paper hats. The fact that I am a left seater and you are a right seater indicates that you are more likely to join the paper hat caste before I do.

As for my "meaningless point" it is hardly that. Perhaps I was too subtle for you.

You are a documented liar and your own words prove it quite conclusively. It is therefore both ironic and hilarious to see you lecture others about the spreading of falsehoods.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

I don't know why you keep talking about paper hats. The fact that I am a left seater and you are a right seater indicates that you are more likely to join the paper hat caste before I do.

As for my "meaningless point" it is hardly that. Perhaps I was too subtle for you.

You are a documented liar and your own words prove it quite conclusively. It is therefore both ironic and hilarious to see you lecture others about the spreading of falsehoods.

You're a broken record.

A left seater? You? Does that mean you work the LEFT drive-up window?

You may not get it, but I NEVER lied on this forum. As for an explanation, you can make that up for yourself, just like your stupid ideas.

 

[Metroyet]

If you think ALPA would be doing any better you are fooling yourself.

Hey, it will be just as easy to blame that on the childish antics of AOL/AWAPPA and the disruption of the incessant foot stomping tantrum of trying to cash that lottery ticket that held things up. You will likely just keep strengthening resolve but keep at it. In the meantime there will be retirements on the East as not everyone will wait till 65, there will be upward movement as people transition to larger aircraft and reserve to block holder an so on. It is just as easy to say pilots on the West will cave over the next few years as time marches on because even with LOA 93, the bleaker picture may be out West.

Enough water flows over the dam and the company may just look to keep things separate for quite some time or longer.

There goes that "Lottery Ticket" analogy again. 🙄 Ridiculous. Hundreds of productive West Careers getting de-railed by a bunch of furloughed, (again) pilots from a twice, (nearly four time) failed regional airline. The East had more guys on furlough than AMW had active. Remember that. Again, 16 months or less with no chance to lock up a contract as section 22 will be tied up til there's a new election. You can bet on that.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

There goes that "Lottery Ticket" analogy again. 🙄 Ridiculous. Hundreds of productive West Careers getting de-railed by a bunch of furloughed, (again) pilots from a twice, (nearly four time) failed regional airline. The East had more guys on furlough than AMW had active. Remember that. Again, 16 months or less with no chance to lock up a contract as section 22 will be tied up til there's a new election. You can bet on that.

And it's the West management that keeps getting LCC selected as "America's Worst Airline". That's where your jobs are going. Nobody on either pilot list is causing the customers to leave.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Again, 16 months or less with no chance to lock up a contract as section 22 will be tied up til there's a new election. You can bet on that.

You don't have the votes now, nor will you in 16 months, to get a new election. Fuggedaboudit.

 

[N905TW]

Did they show you how to wear the paper hat yet?

Don't forget, thank the customers before they leave the drive-thru.

A left seater? You? Does that mean you work the LEFT drive-up window?

Oh look. Yet another bitter Eastie who can't hide his excitement that Westies are losing their jobs. Disgusting.

 

[Metroyet]

And it's the West management that keeps getting LCC selected as "America's Worst Airline". That's where your jobs are going. Nobody on either pilot list is causing the customers to leave.

Speaking of "where the jobs are going/went"...


http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.sear...ine_version=6.0

More examples of the big "lottery win".

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Oh look. Yet another bitter Eastie who can't hide his excitement that Westies are losing their jobs. Disgusting.

Bitter? Why would I be bitter?

 

[Metroyet]

You don't have the votes now, nor will you in 16 months, to get a new election. Fuggedaboudit.

Thank you for so clearly summing up the heart of the DFR case in one sentence.

Tyranny of the Majority to evade final and binding.

 

[N924PS]

You're a broken record.

A left seater? You? Does that mean you work the LEFT drive-up window?

You may not get it, but I NEVER lied on this forum. As for an explanation, you can make that up for yourself, just like your stupid ideas.

The way the economy is these days we might all be lucky to have a job next year.

Even working the drive in windows. You might be wearing a paper hat too and that West guy could be your shift manager!

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Speaking of "where the jobs are going/went"...


http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.sear...ine_version=6.0

More examples of the big "lottery win".

Most, if not all, of those aircraft were parked well before the merger. The 737-200s were parked right after 9/11 (Dec 2, 2001, IIRC). At the time they were parked, both Doug and "Just Call Me Dave" Siegel were standing in front of congress with their hands open to get a bailout by the taxpayers.