US Pilot labor thread 12/2-12/8

[Piedmont1984]

Elevation

That's exactly it. It is cheaper and more convenient for the company to do it this way. I agree with you and Jim, the pilots on the third list should be furloughed first. I believe USAPA as being on record supporting this methodology as well. Did they not grieve it?

However, the third list has been absorbed by either east or west. Management is drawing down east and west at different rates and amounts.

So I can see why they are doing this, even though it is wrong.

 

[pilotn79]

Pilotn79, I don't understand. Can you please enlighten me?

Capt Bud, all I can say is why did we agree to binding arbitration? It seems to me, one side never intended to abide by the results unless they agreed with the outcome.

 

[Phoenix]

So since ALPA agreed to binding retro pay back to December 7th 1941 does USAPA have to abide by that?

 

[luvn737s]

So let me get this right. Since we are in separate ops and since more furloughs are coming from the west due to market conditions in PHX and LAS, you are saying that management should furlough more from the east instead and then transfer pilots from the west to make up for the shortage created in the east. The transferees will then become east pilots, unless of course this is TDY duty.

Now I get it. :blink:

No, you just build west pairings that cover the flying necessary in the east. A 4 day trip that begins and ends in PHX but flys the balance in the "east system" (however you define that). Cross base TDY is prohibited per the TA.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

OK, another USAPA Koolaide drinker ignoring the facts. You'd have me think that the new company based in Tempe, Arizona was a simple re-location plan by your execs looking for a warmer climate.

I am not a pilot or a US Airways employee. Just a concerned customer hoping that big boys can play nicely. Personally, it's just not right to place someone with single-digits of service to a company OVER someone with double-digits of service to a company. Those that think that is the right thing to do are pond scum in my book.

Later,
Eye

 

[BoeingBoy]

However, the third list has been absorbed by either east or west. Management is drawing down east and west at different rates and amounts.

It may be semantics only, but the third list hasn't been absorbed since it'll exist till there's one pilot group with one seniority list operating under one contract. The company furloughed as though the New Hires were absorbed - separate East New Hires and West New Hires, but that isn't what the TA says.

Once the New Hire list is furloughed, or concurrently with that, the company is free to furlough from East and/or West as it sees fit.

Jim

 

[des nudo]

Interesting that some west pilots are expecting the moon from USAPA even while they are not members...and they are even circuitously arguing that they "couldn't become members" until USAPA amended it's CBL's...
WRONG, and you all know it. All anyone had to do was earnestly apply, and step up as a rep for LAS or PHX..

Did anyone ever do that? NOPE.

What a joke...now they say they were "prevented from access to membership until recently"

I've been quipped by some friends, your little miss Suzie loophole was used to AVOID being a member...now you say it PREVENTED you from being members....which is it, lads?...I guess you still want the marmy to play both ways...as long as it suits your case.

I'd love to quote some west posts over a 1 year timeline and show just how much the story has changed over the year.

Bunch of Mary's and liars.

 

[cactusboy53]

Pilotn79, I don't understand. Can you please enlighten me? In the absence of a combined seniority list, how do you conclude you are being furloughed out of seniority. There are furloughs on both sides of the Mississippi, the exact number depends on the individual staffing requirements of the West and East sides. Am I missing something?

Bud;
I'm taking a stab at this, but what I believe Pilotn79 is making reference to is the "third list" pilots. If Pilotn79 is an ORIGINAL CACTUS pilot that has been furloughed, and there still remains "third list" pilots getting a paycheck ANYWHERE (perhaps even still on probation) in the US Airways system, then those are furloughed out of seniority. The Tentative Agreement even states that the "third list" pilots are junior to all AWA and AAA pilots. If they are junior and still working, then it is a seniority violation regardless of separate operations.

With regard to the rest of this debacle: the lawyers will get rich, the lawyer's kids will all get new BMW's, the lawyers wives &/or girlfriends will get new jewelry, the judge will decide, the pilots will be out hundreds of thousands of dollars (or more if damages are awarded), and some pilot group will be upset (again?).

 

[BoeingBoy]

Interesting that some west pilots are expecting the moon from USAPA even while they are not members...and they are even circuitously arguing that they "couldn't become members" until USAPA amended it's CBL's...
WRONG, and you all know it. All anyone had to do was earnestly apply, and step up as a rep for LAS or PHX..

Didn't bother reading the USAPA C&BL prior to the recent changes, I see...

Jim

 

[cactusboy53]

I am not a pilot or a US Airways employee. Just a concerned customer hoping that big boys can play nicely. Personally, it's just not right to place someone with single-digits of service to a company OVER someone with double-digits of service to a company. Those that think that is the right thing to do are pond scum in my book.

Later,
Eye

???? Why are you here, and why would we then care about how you feel about 'our seniority'? If this is truly the case, I will have to file your posts in the same location that I file the Dixie Chicks, Tina Fey's & Alec Baldwin's political feelings. If this is truly about digits, let's go by date of birth. Failing that, let's go by date of one's first Solo, the acquisition (I LOVE THAT WORD) Commercial Pilot License or ATP.

Final and binding are just exactly that. If the Judge sees it our way, it may cost a lot more than a seniority number.

XOXOXOXO
Pond Scum

 

[des nudo]

Didn't bother reading the USAPA C&BL prior to the recent changes, I see...

Jim

Wow...I didn't know I'd awaken the sleeping Oracle...

Yes, mate, I read the CBL's....I also read that USAPA was seeking west pilots to join, and to get involved...the few that did got harassed and there are investigations to this day...right?

I also know that members were accepted BEFORE the CBL's were changed....problem is, the west pilots were trying to squirm OUT of being members...(Miss Susie, for example)...

NOW, they say they were "prevented" from being members until the change...(impossible, based on Susie's case before AH and the arbitrator...)

You have read up on this, right mate?

lets revisit, in case you forgot some key parts:

USAPA is voted on by ALL pilots, east and west and wins legally.
West pilots reluctantly submit altered applications(stipulations)
Some West pilots get voted in, and never pay any type of dues.
"Susie" and 3 friends go before AH for TERM for section 29 default.
"Susie" argues she was never "legally" voted IN to the union.
(attempting to remain a NON-member)
AH concedes the detail of her claim...
CBL's changed to allow for the premeditated LACK of west participation...
West pilots claim in their DFR that they haven't had membership access until the recent change...

Tell that to Susie....(of course this will all come out in court...)

 

[nic4us]

I am not a pilot or a US Airways employee. Just a concerned customer hoping that big boys can play nicely. Personally, it's just not right to place someone with single-digits of service to a company OVER someone with double-digits of service to a company. Those that think that is the right thing to do are pond scum in my book.

Later,
Eye

Let me introduce myself..in your book I am pond scum..in my book you are misinformed and ignorant of what transpired. But I will give you the benefir of the doubt and assume you do not support an attempt at stealing a co-workers job or seniority..in my book we have a name for that also.

 

[EastUS]

QUOTE (EyeInTheSky @ Dec 2 2008, 08:37 PM)
I am not a pilot or a US Airways employee. Just a concerned customer hoping that big boys can play nicely. Personally, it's just not right to place someone with single-digits of service to a company OVER someone with double-digits of service to a company. Those that think that is the right thing to do are pond scum in my book.

Later,
Eye

???? Why are you here, and why would we then care about how you feel about 'our seniority'? If this is truly the case, I will have to file your posts in the same location that I file the Dixie Chicks, Tina Fey's & Alec Baldwin's political feelings. If this is truly about digits, let's go by date of birth. Failing that, let's go by date of one's first Solo, the acquisition (I LOVE THAT WORD) Commercial Pilot License or ATP.

Final and binding are just exactly that. If the Judge sees it our way, it may cost a lot more than a seniority number.

XOXOXOXO
Pond Scum

"Pond Scum!!?? Hot MEEE!!..The world may think so..but the arbitrator said I'm not!!..and..well.."final and Binding!!"..."Waaah!!".."and my Daddy the judge is gonna' beat you all up!!..Waaah!!"/etc ad nausum 🙄

Yikes! I guess that hit a nerve

Happy Holiday Season All

 

[pilotn79]

Bud;
I'm taking a stab at this, but what I believe Pilotn79 is making reference to is the "third list" pilots.

As an OC or Original Cactus pilot, the third list is a given. I'm speaking of the principle of abiding by a process agreed to. At this point I would not offer to flip a coin with some of these people.

 

[nic4us]

Wow...I didn't know I'd awaken the sleeping Oracle...

Yes, mate, I read the CBL's....I also read that USAPA was seeking west pilots to join, and to get involved...the few that did got harassed and there are investigations to this day...right?

I also know that members were accepted BEFORE the CBL's were changed....problem is, the west pilots were trying to squirm OUT of being members...(Miss Susie, for example)...

NOW, they say they were "prevented" from being members until the change...(impossible, based on Susie's case before AH and the arbitrator...)

You have read up on this, right mate?

des nudo

Since you are so read up on current events.. try reading the depositions of a number of west pilots in the current lawsuit that tried to become USAPA reps but were turned down. They were rejected by USAPA not harrassed by the West. Why, you might ask were they turned down? Because USAPA did not want any West reps or West input or West influence in their affairs. USAPA's intent is to steal from the West they cannot have West reps ruining their game plan.

Also the West is not claiming they were prevented from being members. The West is claiming as members they were not afforded the same rights and priveledges as east members,therefore they do not owe dues,and guess what they do not.