US pilot labor thread 6/14-6/20

[NiceLandingCaptain]

I think you have that backwards, It's the west that is starting the lawsuit and there is no stapling.

Excuse me, but just exactly what planet do you dwell upon? With distorted awareness such as this, it is no wonder we find ourselves in the stand-off we're in.

I have heard of warped sense of reality before - my GF gets to treat "confused" folks regularily down at the psycho ward - but until I read this post, I wasn't aware of just how deep into denial some of the eastie antagonists have sunk.


INTEGRITY MATTERS

NLC

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

"The west would likely move towards USAPA if they agreed to meet with the west and concede the DOH issue and remove the perceived threat to their careers." I'm touched by your newly discovered "generous natiure".
Prechilled: "Ho Ho Ho, St Nic is coming to town!"
Leonaidas: " I want the captain seat...and most of all, I want every single east pilot to pay for it"...and the list of such precious gems is virtually endless.

"So far every USAPA supporter has gleefully cheered how they will hurt their fellow pilots (lawsuits, dismissals,staple,), ..."
JOHN MCILVENNA: "...It will be all out warfare" Leonidas: "alpa lost by 400 votes. The war is on"...et al, ad nauseum. I won't bore any with overly detailing the actual behaviors of certain west "professionals" regarding jumpseats, the US Mail, kiddies-play-on-the-phone, kiddies-play-with-hanging-dolls-in-cockpits....everyone knows the specifics already.

So, in essence..."all" that you're asking for is for the east/USAPA to finally give you your St. Nic after all...ignore both the constitution of the Union as well as your "All out warfare"...thusly, completely betraying the trust of all who voted for USAPA and it's inherent principles and structure...and all will be just peachy....I see. Ummm..exactly what IS it that you people are "on" out there? 🙄

1) There's an existent Union, sanctioned by the NMB, which legally, if not to your liking, represents all USAirways pilots. True or False?
2) An ongoing effort at concerted sabotage of said, legally elected Union exists out west. True or False?
3) Within said sabotage attempts, is an intentional refusal to pay dues of any kind. True or False?
4) Your "position" and group behavior is both "reasonable", and completely unassailable within any legal proceedings. True or False?
5) You have even so much as the tip of a toenail actually even touching reality in any form. True or False?

"...concede the DOH issue"?? = Sure...no problem at all..I'm naturally fine with disregarding a life-long, firmly held principle of mine, as to what principles the core bedrock of actual unionism's based on.... just to assuage your bizzarre little tantrums....sure thing.

Its real easy, east.

First, change the constitution. Chief engineer and self appointed mouthpiece Scott T. told me that making changes are already being considered. You know - the part where DOH is given higher priority than safety with the current fusapa constitutional abomination.

Second, change your attitude - the "principles" you so bravely hold on to have been over-ridden by an agreed to, and fair, process. Simple as that.

"Core bedrock of unionism." Wow, does some of that rock include screwing your brothers out of their captain's seats? Yup, that's true unionism there!


INTEGRITY MATTERS

NLC

 

[pilot]

Its real easy, east.

First, change the constitution. Chief engineer and self appointed mouthpiece Scott T. told me that making changes are already being considered. You know - the part where DOH is given higher priority than safety with the current fusapa constitutional abomination.

Second, change your attitude - the "principles" you so bravely hold on to have been over-ridden by an agreed to, and fair, process. Simple as that.

"Core bedrock of unionism." Wow, does some of that rock include screwing your brothers out of their captain's seats? Yup, that's true unionism there!


INTEGRITY MATTERS

NLC

If you currently hold a captains seat will always hold that captains seat. That's what conditions and restrictions mean. If you don't listen you won't hear no matter what is being said.

Explain please how USAPA is going to screw a current captain out of his seat. Be specific.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

You're still missing the point so here goes one more time:

Thanks. But you too are missing the point. USAPA will represent the west MEMBERS. It will also provide the required support for maintenance dues members to the extent needed. Until such time as someone steps forward to be a rep. Then you will truly have representation. There does not have to be appointments.

USAPA must represent Agency Fee paying non-members on an equal basis with members.

That really should be a simple concept to understand.

Same for you. Are you a member yet? No, didn't think so. The big difference is non members do not vote on internal union business. IMO Your representation will actually come out of the committees that have jurisdiction over your particular problem. Don't like it? Get a rep to step forward. We can't force anyone by "Drafting" as you so like to say.

If there are no Representatives from the PHX base, USAPA must either appoint one from the Pilotburo, or they must consolidate PHX and LAS into an existing base. To simply hold out their hands and say, "pay up" without the willingness to carry out their responsibilities will not get them very far.

Don't confuse the ALPA C&BL's with ours. Consolidation is not addressed. We will do what is required. Think about it. Who's your rep again? You?

The west would likely move towards USAPA if they agreed to meet with the west and concede the DOH issue and remove the perceived threat to their careers. Instead USAPA has painted themselves into a corner and is waiting for the second coat to dry. Their pride keeps them from taking the very action that would fully empower them by uniting east and west. Meanwhile the USAPA flagwavers like to babble on about someone saying "I want my captains seat and I want every east pilot to pay for it", just so they can continue to evade the real issue which is protection from tyranny and the unity that will come from such protection. They cheer a dead-end lawsuit, but fail to come to grips with the need for unity. Wielding the power only through sheer numbers rather than through mutually agreed principals only insures that future support will dwindle as fewer people want to be associated with strong-arm tactics.

We haven't painted anything into a corner. The C&BL's are working just fine and need no revision right now. The "babble" you are fondly quoting comes from a west poster bent on what? UNITY? Where is that reconciliation overture? Oh sorry, believe he was also the one threatening his own lawsuit. Sorry, we voted in a new union with its own C&BL's that are working just fine. On the other hand, I have preached to no avail about the need for some level of unity as we move into negotiations next week. I'll ask you again, where do you want to start? East LOA93 or west contract 2000? But one way or the other, we will be paid the same in the very near future. Maybe if a west guy would step up to work within the C&BL's of USAPA and actually want to represent the west pilots we might begin to unify. Doubtful, but who knows. Either way there will be a conlusion to this mess.

But upper and middle manangement have given tacit approval to USAPAs tactics as it delays the unification of the pilots and keeps their power in check. Eventually even the most strident USAPA supporters will want more and by continuing to rule by threat and intimidation, they will find USAPA unable to provide.

I believe that your emotions are getting the better of you. No one wants to rule that way and we are not from my point of view. We will however, do all that is necessary to protect the union from your overt and covert attacks to destroy it. The west plan, not mine. Which serves what purpose again? Your continued attacks on the leadership speaks volumes. Wonder what you will come up with next? That's why you're a funny guy floundering around.

So far every USAPA supporter has gleefully cheered how they will hurt their fellow pilots (lawsuits, dismissals,staple,), but not one has given even one example of how USAPA has provided a clear benefit to ALL US pilots. And the shame is that they don't feel they have to.

The campaign is over. How about abandoning AWAPPA and the Army. Those 2 groups gleefully support the demise of the union also. I don't want to injure (Whether perceived, speculated, real or otherwise) anyone. Nor will I idly stand by to let someone step all over me or my fellow pilots. We will always disagree on what a union is and what are it's principles. That makes the world go around I guess. But this dead lock will be broken one way or the other. The only real issue between us is the Nic. We told you it wasn't going to work. You chose one path supporting ALPA and we chose another supporting USAPA. Where is ALPA again?

 

[EastUS]

Its real easy, east.

First, change the constitution. Chief engineer and self appointed mouthpiece Scott T. told me that making changes are already being considered. You know - the part where DOH is given higher priority than safety with the current fusapa constitutional abomination.

Second, change your attitude - the "principles" you so bravely hold on to have been over-ridden by an agreed to, and fair, process. Simple as that.

"Core bedrock of unionism." Wow, does some of that rock include screwing your brothers out of their captain's seats? Yup, that's true unionism there!


INTEGRITY MATTERS

NLC

NLC: ""Core bedrock of unionism." Wow, does some of that rock include screwing your brothers out of their captain's seats? Yup, that's true unionism there!"
Leonidas: "I want the captain seat...and most of all, I want every single east pilot to pay for it".

Spare us all any more west "Righteousness"..."Integrity"....or even the tiniest, self-assigned fantasies of your knowing even the square root of F---All about Unionism.


"There's just no reasoning with delusional unfortunates, during the phase of active addiction to crack, Nic, meth, heroin, .......whatever the source of the mental and spiritual illness."

NLC: "Second, change your attitude" To suit your whims..and the likes of yours?...I think...ummm...not 😉 My initial "attitude" was "Ladies and Gentlemen..How do we best fix this mess?" After all the non stop, adolescent and utterly insane west BS?...You've earned my "attitude" 10 times over. Frankly?....your posting was telling = ""Core bedrock of unionism." Wow, does some of that rock include screwing your brothers out of their captain's seats? Yup, that's true unionism there!" The whole westie "thing" seems to be wrapped up in "Captainitus". Have you even a thought towards those scheduled for furlough? In the extremely unlikely event that you ever grasp the notion of Unionism NOT meaning = "It's ALL about MEEE!"...feel free to celebrate that astounding epiphany with, perhaps another envelope stuffed with yet more of your "Integrity"...jsut don't send it anywhere this time.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

1760 or higher. WOW! That's a big number. Funny thing is, even your own new union seems to have a more realistic grasp on the numbers than you do...

No, my numbers were 1200-1500. Yours were 500-700. I KNOW my estimate will be closer. even at the numbers you quoted, which are likely wrong, I'm closer.

 

[Leonidas]

You east clowns are paying alright, LOA93 for the forseable future. As for the west furlough's, I don't know one that would take a penny from east scum, we take care of our own, something you clowns know nothing about. How much money have you clowns lost so far? idiots

 

[EastUS]

You east clowns are paying alright, LOA93 for the forseable future. As for the west furlough's, I don't know one that would take a penny from east scum, we take care of our own, something you clowns know nothing about. How much money have you clowns lost so far? idiots

Well..if it isn't good old "I want the captain seat...and most of all, I want every single east pilot to pay for it" himself 😉

....just the noble images alone would surely evoke visions of King Leonidas and his heroic Spartan band/The ARMY of Leonidas, at the Gates of Fire....staring down the Persian hordes with noble sacrifice and selflessness clear in their eyes....Fiercely brandished cell phone in one hand, and shielded by a book of stamps.

Leonidas'"I don't know one that would take a penny from east scum" That's good to hear sir...but a bit surprising..given that the west's beena bout nothing more than taking actual seats/positions and seniority away from the east at all levels.

Leonidas'"we take care of our own, something you clowns know nothing about." Yes..we can all see that...just from your esteemed AWAPPA putting up lawyers for all concerned...umm...or was it just for mighty John M?..perhaps even the inner circle entirely? Yes indeed...you "take care of" your own all right.

Leonidas'"How much money have you clowns lost so far? idiots" Still self-limited via being stuck on "clowns" and "idiots"?...As a taxpayer..this concerns me......must not have been a formidable high school....Perhaps too much time was spent on Spartan "warrior" training with phones and envelopes 🙄

 

[Pi brat]

You east clowns are paying alright, LOA93 for the forseable future. As for the west furlough's, I don't know one that would take a penny from east scum, we take care of our own, something you clowns know nothing about. How much money have you clowns lost so far? idiots

No personal attack there.Watch that blood pressure, wouldn't want you going out on a medical.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

When are you West Goobers going to get that you all work for the same airline? I mean, come on.

Later,
Eye

 

[AAA73Pilot]

You east clowns are paying alright, LOA93 for the forseable future. As for the west furlough's, I don't know one that would take a penny from east scum, we take care of our own, something you clowns know nothing about. How much money have you clowns lost so far? idiots

Good for you. Glad you see fit to do that. How is that going to work again? Through AWAPPA? Like you so fondly want to preach about USAPA's finances, I would like to know how is AWAPPA's? Maybe those $150 checks your expecting ought to cover a few months of expenditures. Ole Jeff doesn't come cheap you know. He needs a new boat soon. I'll make a prediction for you, AWAPPA will be bankrupt soon. Don't you just love FUD? Keeps things interesting don't you think?

 

[Pi brat]

I would really love to know how you came up with that conclusion? There are graduated elections spelled out in the C&BL's. Rather than gloss over that little section, try reading and comprehending what is written. What I really like is your desperate attempts to discredit USAPA because you choose to not participate in it. That lack works for me, good job. Life just got easier as of June 18th.

You have to remember that these guys don't have to have facts to come to conclusions. I have to keep telling myself that every time I read one of their posts.

 

[luvn737s]

24 pages and still no one has made a definitive statement on exactly when the first election will be held. Why?

(Hint: You gotta make sure the screwing of the west is firmly codified before releasing the grip of power)

 

[EyeInTheSky]

24 pages and still no one has made a definitive statement on exactly when the first election will be held. Why?

(Hint: You gotta make sure the screwing of the west is firmly codified before releasing the grip of power)

Oh please. You guys screwed yourselves. Parker and Kirby told you guys the Nicolau was unfair but greed got the best of you and here you are. Karma is a real be-yoch.

Later,
Eye

 

[Pi brat]

24 pages and still no one has made a definitive statement on exactly when the first election will be held. Why?

(Hint: You gotta make sure the screwing of the west is firmly codified before releasing the grip of power)

Why do you bother posting about this stuff when you have no intention of participating, if the elections are next week or next year?

If you are not going to be part of the process set back, shut up, and see when you can file your lawsuits.

Nothing USAPA can do, short of adopting the nic award, will get you onboard, right? So why does anything else matter?