US pilot labor thread 6/21-6/27

[EastUS]

And yet who said this?

(EastUS @ May 13 2007, 10:24 PM)
You guys seem utterly incapable of envisioning a group that's fully "had it" with being stomped on."

Poor easties, who's got the vision problem now?

PS- Thanks for the one liners. Keep 'em coming.

My earlier comment, just post nic wasn't the least bit any 'Poor, pitiful us" BS...It was, (as you "MIGHT" just possibly....maybe finally, now realize from subsequent events)...a personal warning that your precious Nic wasn't going to "sell", that ALpa hadn't the "Hearts and Minds" of the east....that you had absolutely NO understanding whatsoever of the east, and that you'd best change your "I want the captain seat..and most of all, I want every single east pilot to pay for it!"/etc west approach. The operative terms in my post were "fully had it". I tried to explain this to you folks for nearly a year...and all to zero effect out there. ("Ho Ho HO/etc"..."Booyashaka!!"...."It's OVER!!!"...."You won't even get 200 cards!!...Send the cards!..I DARE you!!"/etc) Clearly...you STILL don't "Get it"....almost unbelievable..except for the fact that I'm nowadays, long enured to such west lunacy on any literary level.

"Poor easties, who's got the vision problem now? " Dunno..better you ask that of your friends. The "Poor easties" haven't your vision problems. We "Poor easties" aren't sweating out the results from multiple, and manifestly insane, and even criminal actions on our part. That appears to be entirely your "job"...likely, in more ways than one.

A little actual reasoning out your way would serve you folks well. It certainly couldn't hurt for you to at least try it for a change anyway. You certainly aren't all just self-destructive, whack jobs out there.....despite what some of you post here....or...what antics, to my and many others utter amazement..some of you actually do.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Thanks, point being that seeham called all of us wanting a deal, no west pilots called seeham, of course usapa's update forget's to mention that. BTW the # is zero.

I think it's important that the judge see that Seeham is attempting to settle out of court. Judges LIKE settlements out of court, and now Seeham has tried to make it easy for the judge. The dim-bulbs on the defendant side, though, think that stonewalling is somehow productive. The judge will certainly take Seehams actions into account, as well as those of the dim-bulbs.

 

[checksix]

PHL Domicile Update
USAPA

June 24, 2008


Fellow PHL pilots,

As you all know your union Reps and the rest of the Board have been working hard with the Negotiating Advisory and Merger Committees to begin contract negotiations. This is your Union and we are your Reps - we need all of your help and support to bring home a contract that has the improvements we all desire.

With the concerns and stress that have been a part of our lives for many years we now have added concerns with the coming furloughs. Be assured that your Union will do everything in its power to mitigate the number and minimize the effects of the furloughs.

You must also do your part and know your contract. Be a good union member. Fly what is required and think about your fellow pilots. As has been said this is a fuel cost problem not a crew cost problem. With the price of fuel at record highs this pilot group is well aware of the impact on our airline.

With increased fuel prices a major concern for the Company, it has come to our attention that some pilots are being contacted by the Chief Pilots' office with regards to their fuel usage or with questions about fuel added to the gate release. These reports have been given to the Chief Pilots' office by other pilots and OCC. We have been told that some of these pilots may be offered an OTD (opportunity for training day). This can be seen as intimidation

We wish to remind you that the Captain has the final authority on all operations with the aircraft. FLY SAFE and keep yourself IN THE GREEN. Do not let yourself be intimidated by anyone.

We operate in a highly stressed environment; with the added concerns of family and health increased every day that we live under sub-standard wages and reduced vacation and sick policy, we do not need to be further intimidated while doing our jobs in a professional and efficient manner.

We are professionals. We need to be treated as professionals and recognized for the contributions that we have given. If you are contacted by the Chief Pilots' office we strongly recommend that you contact your Reps.

Stay involved and informed. Be a GOOD UNION MEMBER

Doug Burke

Pete Dugstad

Roger Henriksson


USAPA Communications | US Airline Pilots Association
877-678-7272 | USAirlinePilots.org

 

[pilot]

If Seeham is calling it is logical. The point of the suit is to get the antics to stop and to cover the costs associated with the antics. Not to put some emotional, irrational pilot in jail. If that can be accomplished outside of a court room everyone wins. The shame is that USAPA was forced into going the legal route in the first place.

As far as unfair furloughs I guess that would be in the eye of the beholder.

Had Nic been implemented the day it was announced the 400 or so upgrades, every damn one of them, would have gone to former West pilots. Even though only about 30 of those upgrades came from West retirements. The other 370 came from East retirements. Now who brought those upgrades to the party? This goes to the heart of Nic and the "windfall" that he disregarded.

Of course those are not precise numbers but certainly close and accurate.

All seats can be protected and fenced with a DOH list. USAPA will demonstrate this in negotiations very shortly. But DOH is not going to be given up.

 

[luvn737s]

It's a civil case , no one is under any threat of going to jail.

Every upgrade going west? Pure speculation. You have no idea how many west pilots would chase all the way to PHL if there were upgrades available on the west. Hindsights supposed to be 20/20.

Maybe seats can be protected, but they won't be. No one can trust USAPA to follow through on their word. And USAPA doesn't feel the need to, which is the frustrating part. USAPA could be a good union, but it will never be as long as 1/2 the pilots are disenfranchised and cannot trust their union. DOH must be on the table. In fact the C&BL's should be completely re-written with west input so that they have an equal investment in the direction of the union, rather than being relegated to less than the red-headed stepchild as many would have them.

Bradford came to PHX and arrogantly said they didn't need a plan B in case they lost the election. Perhaps they feel their arrogance can substitute for any Plan B. I can't speak for anyone else, but I wouldn't follow that type of leadership.

 

[sharktooth]

No one can trust USAPA to follow through on their word.

and no one should. east, west, north or south. Words are only as good as the deeds that follow.

If you must, then trust, but verify. You do it all the time in the cockpit, no reason you cannot use the same procedure everywhere. Had we done that with national politics, Bushco would be a footnote to history and the economy would not be in the dumper, in my not very humble opinion.

Very important to verify, no matter the expense, if for no other reason than to remind "them" who they work for.

 

[pilot]

"Going to jail" was a term not a goal. You got the point. USAPA's goal with the lawsuit is to stop the crap, recover the costs and you know it. If it goes to court your boys are going to have to pay a hell of a lot more than they would by settling out of court.

Upgrade opportunities are not speculation. They are fact. The West would have had absolutely had those opportunities and neither you or I can predict what anyone would do regardless of how a list is structured. To say they wouldn't take them so Nic should be OK is ludicrous and shows how you can't quite grasp this seniority issue. It's not the position it is the opportunity to take that position. It is about seniority RIGHTS. Not having those upgrade opportunities is what is wrong with Nic.

USAPA isn't asking for your trust. We are about to prove what you say won't happen. Pay close attention. And we don't feel a NEED to do the right thing we are committed to doing the right thing. It's not about east or west friend. It's about the profession and the LCC pilots. ALL the LCC pilots.

As for plan B what need was there for a plan B? Had we lost nothing would have changed. ALPA would still be here and east would never agree to a single contract. Plan B was in place. That was plan B. USAPA didn't need a plan B.

Suit yourself. Whether you believe it or not USAPA is not your enemy. I understand your anger. You played by the ALPA rules. You won the lottery. You feel entitled to the winnings. But the pilots whose seniority, pension, pay, work rules etc..... were taken away have had enough. Nic was the final straw. You folks just happened to be the ones who were in the crosshairs. But when they (ALPA) have a process that allows the most sacred right of a pilot to disappear this was bound to happen. And unless they change that policy more will leave. Watch what happens at NWA.

DOH/LOS is not going to be on the table. Your positions will be protected and no one is going to lose the seat he is currently in. My guess is that there will be even more safeguards in place for ALL pilots. East and West. Hell, you guys are going to own all the seats in 8 to 10 years anyhow.

I'm sure you will do what you think is in your best interest. But the reality is that we need to do what is in this professions best interest. And if you think Nic is how seniority lists should be merged you truly don't understand the profession. Because the precedent it sets is setting you and I up for things down the road that you truly don't want to be a part of. If you cannot understand that you aren't looking at the big picture of what is coming.

I hold no ill will to you folks. Except to the ones who call the safety hotline and give false reports. If I were in charge those guys would never fly again. But that's just me.

pilot

 

[oldiebutgoody]

...Bradford came to PHX and arrogantly said they didn't need a plan B in case they lost the election. Perhaps they feel their arrogance can substitute for any Plan B. I can't speak for anyone else, but I wouldn't follow that type of leadership.

Why would they need a plan B? They would have ceased to exist, just like AWAPPA should have, and will eventually.

Your points are STUPID!

 

[EastUS]

DOH must be on the table. In fact the C&BL's should be completely re-written with west input....

Whew!...At least your latest demands are fully "reasonable". Guess again all around.

1) No, DOH should NEVER "be on the table"...that's a huge part of how this mess got started.....in case yoiu forgot.
2) "..completely re-written with west input..." What would be the/any possible point? From where would such enlightened "input" come?..The "enlightened" AWAPPA-Leo Circus?...or..for starters; should we just give you "the captain seat..and have every single east pilot pay for it"? If you want input; join and make your thoughts and your vote known. If you want to simply incessantly whine? = Have a box of cyber tissues on me.

Join and have voting rights vs don't, and forsake those rights. Express yourself through legitimate and legal methods or don't...and accept the consequences of your actions or inaction. If you choose to maintain your present course and status...rest assured that the world will go on regardless, and doesn't revolve around you/me/anyone personally in any case. That last concept,...you might wish to eventually explore.

 

[PHLfa88]

Sure, usapa won the election in April. That is the LAST thing they will win.

Grow Up Man!! :down:

 

[tazz]

Grow Up Man!! :down:

Simply stating an opinion, fa, no whining there. Don't let your emotions get the best of you. Will admit if I am wrong. Not wrong yet....

 

[nycbusdriver]

It's a civil case , no one is under any threat of going to jail.

Every upgrade going west? Pure speculation. You have no idea how many west pilots would chase all the way to PHL if there were upgrades available on the west. Hindsights supposed to be 20/20.

Maybe seats can be protected, but they won't be. No one can trust USAPA to follow through on their word. And USAPA doesn't feel the need to, which is the frustrating part. USAPA could be a good union, but it will never be as long as 1/2 the pilots are disenfranchised and cannot trust their union. DOH must be on the table. In fact the C&BL's should be completely re-written with west input so that they have an equal investment in the direction of the union, rather than being relegated to less than the red-headed stepchild as many would have them.

Bradford came to PHX and arrogantly said they didn't need a plan B in case they lost the election. Perhaps they feel their arrogance can substitute for any Plan B. I can't speak for anyone else, but I wouldn't follow that type of leadership.

Do you even read what you write before you post it? Can you find some fourth-grader to proof this stuff before you continue to embarrass yourself.

If those east upgrades going to west pilots is pure speculation because no one out west would want the east upgrade, then what in the name of heaven was the problem with fencing those upgrades off? The west refused any fences, which amply demonstrates that the west would have taken them if given the opportunity. Actions are much more articulate than words, and "louder," too, as they say.

As for the C&BLs being completely rewritten with west input, that opportunity was available before April 17th (and it was refused by the west.) On April 17th, the majority of US Airways pilots voted in favor of the C&BLs as they stood. That settles it, pal. Rewrite them with west input. Not gonna happen. Fuggedaboudit!

Bradford arrogantly said they had no plan B. If USAPA had lost, there would be no opportunity for another election for two years. What kind of plan B could possibly matter? Did you expect him to say that their plan B was to crap in envelopes and mail them to McIlvenna? Call the PHX LEC offices and tie up their communications system? That's moron-type stuff. That's the stuff we expect from westie whiners, not from union and aviation professionals.