US pilot labor thread 6/14-6/20

[767jetz]

Actually, my numbers are probably a little low. UAL has 8000 pilots, and 460 aircraft presently. They are parking 100, which is 22 percent of their aircraft. 22 percent of 8000 pilots is 1760 pilots.

1760 or higher. WOW! That's a big number. Funny thing is, even your own new union seems to have a more realistic grasp on the numbers than you do...

June 14, 2008 CHARLOTTE PILOTS USAPA UPDATE

Let’s see, United reduces its fleet 100 aircraft with a 1000 pilot reduction, US Airways reduces 10 aircraft and 300 pilots furloughs???? Does anybody here but us see that the numbers are a bit skewed?

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Why doesn't Bradford draft, I mean appoint some solid USAPA lieutenant to represent the Agency Fee payers out west? There are no elections in the foreseeable future and AA737pilot agrees that Bradford can continue to run USAPA as a dictatorship for as long as he wants, so why not?

I would really love to know how you came up with that conclusion? There are graduated elections spelled out in the C&BL's. Rather than gloss over that little section, try reading and comprehending what is written. What I really like is your desperate attempts to discredit USAPA because you choose to not participate in it. That lack works for me, good job. Life just got easier as of June 18th.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

USAPA still has to represent non-members. How can they claim Agency Fees, but have no one to provide the services that those fees pay for?

No problem. The west members will have representation.

The President appointed the BPR's which is in essence a dictatorship. Tell me what the trigger is for elections per the C&BL's. Bradford is taking full advantage of the blank check the east has given him, and I don't think he'll give it up one minute before he is forced to. You haven't denied that there is no difference between the east reps that are hand-picked by Bradford and any west reps he would choose.

Beepers, More like Bradford's Personal Rubberstamp.

You either don't take the time to find out what really happened, or you choose to ignore the facts. The interim reps were chosen by committee from a list of volunteers. The same will happen with the west as membership increases. I am surprised you didn't try to bring up the loyalty oath again. Which never happened either. Thats what I like about your posts. Always grasping to find anything to discredit the leadership. Keep trying if it makes you feel better. It still doesn't change reality.

 

[cleardirect]

The list of cities Us Airways is reducing service to and from Las Vegas. One has to wonder if this reduction should have taken place a year or two ago.

Albuquerque
Atlanta
Austin
Bakersfield
Burbank
Cedar City
Cleveland
Colorado Springs
El Paso
Eugene
Newark
Merced
Medford
Monterey
Oakland
Oklahoma City
Ontario
Palm Springs
Reno
San Antonio
Salt Lake City
Tucson
Visalia
Yuma

Not sure what your point is. One or two years ago LCC was making money. So why drop flights when the company is making money?

Over half of these cities are exclusive Mesa cites. I would have to check to see if the flights dropped were operated by mainline or Mesa.

Other than ATL, CLE, EWR the other cites could all be Mesa.

 

[checksix]

Gentlemen: Let us not be too hasty herein. I see significant commercial potential. Imagine = an eighteen month speedo swimsuit calendar with these boys, showing them, in all their heroic glory, reaching for phones and envelopes...(umm..perhaps best to avoid the envelopes) :blink: ...but, the marketing potential's clear Just imagine it = "Can you hear me now?"/etc For that matter...just the noble images alone would surely evoke visions of King Leonidas and his heroic Spartan band/The ARMY of Leonidas, at the Gates of Fire....staring down the Persian hordes with noble sacrifice and selflessness clear in their eyes....Fiercely brandished cell phone in one hand, and shielded by a book of stamps.

That was too funny, I'm picking myself off the floor. That was good.

 

[checksix]

Don't worry, we know all about -- and it's not an "olive branch". USAPA wants money. That's all it's about.

It's called restitution.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Probation pilots excepted, does ableoneable really think we're going to pass an assessment to support those who refuse to join, refuse to pay and try to destroy our union?

I agree that the membership should vote on furlough assistance and that probationary pilots, east or west, should be included in receiving that assistance. I think that even pilots off probation who pay germane fees should be included.

Put to a vote of the membership, it will easily pass as have the furlough assistance assessments in years past.

 

[nycbusdriver]

The President appointed the BPR's which is in essence a dictatorship.

That's absolutely wrong. The USAPA C&BL and the current staff were in place during the NMB election. By a wide margin, the majority of pilots voted for that USAPA staff, the C&BL and the schedule for ongoing elections contained therein.

The word for that is DEMOCRACY. The majority voted FOR the plan that USAPA presented. Pure and simple. Bradford and the entire staff were ELECTED through the NMB process.

(I hope that's not too difficult for anyone to understand.)

 

[nycbusdriver]

The members only section? And USAPA has been fresh out of olive branches since it's "conception".

USAPA has lots of olive branches still available. You just have to come inside to get them now.

 

[fatherabraham]

Pilot A:
AAA 20 years LOS
Usapa dues current
No furlough notice (ever)

Pilot B:
awa 3 years LOS
Usapa non current
Recent furlough notice

Just curious how pilot A will vote for furlough bennies ( gift from his/her pocket) to Pilot b who believes it should be reverse circumstance and is doing his/her part to destroy usapa.
Above LOS numbers example only. Do not know details of furlough.

 

[luvn737s]

No problem. The west members will have representation.

You're still missing the point so here goes one more time:

USAPA must represent Agency Fee paying non-members on an equal basis with members.

That really should be a simple concept to understand.

If there are no representitives from the PHX base, USAPA must either appoint one from the Pilotburo, or they must consolidate PHX and LAS into an existing base. To simply hold out their hands and say, "pay up" without the willingness to carry out their responsibilities will not get them very far.

The west would likely move towards USAPA if they agreed to meet with the west and concede the DOH issue and remove the perceived threat to their careers. Instead USAPA has painted themselves into a corner and is waiting for the second coat to dry. Their pride keeps them from taking the very action that would fully empower them by uniting east and west. Meanwhile the USAPA flagwavers like to babble on about someone saying "I want my captains seat and I want every east pilot to pay for it", just so they can continue to evade the real issue which is protection from tyranny and the unity that will come from such protection. They cheer a dead-end lawsuit, but fail to come to grips with the need for unity. Wielding the power only through sheer numbers rather than through mutually agreed principals only insures that future support will dwindle as fewer people want to be associated with strong-arm tactics.

But upper and middle manangement have given tacit approval to USAPAs tactics as it delays the unification of the pilots and keeps their power in check. Eventually even the most strident USAPA supporters will want more and by continuing to rule by threat and intimidation, they will find USAPA unable to provide.

So far every USAPA supporter has gleefully cheered how they will hurt their fellow pilots (lawsuits, dismissals,staple,), but not one has given even one example of how USAPA has provided a clear benefit to ALL US pilots. And the shame is that they don't feel they have to. :down:

 

[Atlantic]

Pilot A:
AAA 20 years LOS
Usapa dues current
No furlough notice (ever)

Pilot B:
awa 3 years LOS
Usapa non current
Recent furlough notice

Just curious how pilot A will vote for furlough bennies ( gift from his/her pocket) to Pilot b who believes it should be reverse circumstance and is doing his/her part to destroy usapa.
Above LOS numbers example only. Do not know details of furlough.

Don't know about Pilot A, but Pilot Me , LOS 30 years , will vote yes for any of our furloughed pilots. Allways have. Doesn't matter what side of the Miss. they are based. We are all US Airways pilots, with deep devides for now, but never the less, we are all atatched at the hip. Like it or not.

 

[EastUS]

I agree that the membership should vote on furlough assistance and that probationary pilots, east or west, should be included in receiving that assistance. I think that even pilots off probation who pay germane fees should be included.

Agreed.

 

[luvthe9]

So far every USAPA supporter has gleefully cheered how they will hurt their fellow pilots (lawsuits, dismissals,staple,), but not one has given even one example of how USAPA has provided a clear benefit to ALL US pilots. And the shame is that they don't feel they have to. :down:

I think you have that backwards, It's the west that is starting the lawsuit and there is no stapling.

 

[EastUS]

The west would likely move towards USAPA if they agreed to meet with the west and concede the DOH issue and remove the perceived threat to their careers.
So far every USAPA supporter has gleefully cheered how they will hurt their fellow pilots (lawsuits, dismissals,staple,), but not one has given even one example of how USAPA has provided a clear benefit to ALL US pilots. And the shame is that they don't feel they have to. :down:

"The west would likely move towards USAPA if they agreed to meet with the west and concede the DOH issue and remove the perceived threat to their careers." I'm very, very touched by your newly discovered/post election, "generous nature". Any such BS, even implying the least bit of negotiable flexibility or historically, any expectations for reasoned responses from the west, is hilarious beyond words.. 😉

Prechilled: "Ho Ho Ho, St Nic is coming to town!"
Leonaidas: " I want the captain seat...and most of all, I want every single east pilot to pay for it"...and the list of such precious gems is virtually endless.

"So far every USAPA supporter has gleefully cheered how they will hurt their fellow pilots (lawsuits, dismissals,staple,), ..."

JOHN MCILVENNA: "...It will be all out warfare" Leonidas: "alpa lost by 400 votes. The war is on"...et al, ad nauseum. I won't bore any with overly detailing the actual behaviors of certain west "professionals" regarding jumpseats, the US Mail, kiddies-play-on-the-phone, kiddies-play-with-hanging-dolls-in-cockpits....everyone knows the specifics already.

So, in essence..."all" that you're asking for is for the east/USAPA to finally give you your St. Nic after all...ignore both the constitution of the Union as well as your "All out warfare"...thusly, completely betraying the trust of all who voted for USAPA and it's inherent principles and structure...and all will be just peachy....I see. Ummm..exactly what IS it that you people are "on" out there? 🙄

"...concede the DOH issue"?? = Sure...no problem at all..I'm naturally fine with disregarding a life-long, firmly held principle of mine, as to what beliefs and principles the core bedrock of actual unionism's based on.... just to assuage your bizzarre little tantrums....sure thing. "The west would likely...." Tha's a "cute" little bit 😉 From ALL demonstrated behavior for over a full year: "The west would likely...." take everything you can lay your hands on, without the slightest concern for any others...certainly without the least bit of actual principles..and with only the splendid "Integrity" conferred on you, in your own mind only, by some arbitrator's whimsical fantasy.

1) There's an existent Union, sanctioned by the NMB, which legally, if not to your liking, represents all USAirways pilots. True or False?
2) An ongoing effort at concerted sabotage of said, legally elected Union exists out west. True or False?
3) Within said sabotage attempts, is an intentional refusal to pay dues of any kind. True or False?
4) Your "position" and group behavior is both "reasonable", and completely unassailable within any legal proceedings. True or False?
5) You have even so much as the tip of a toenail actually even touching reality in any form. True or False?

PS: Be appreciative that I speak only for myself, not USAPA, as these days...personally? I'm far past being fresh outta' olive branches...or the least bit of sympathy for west BS anymore. I'll always afford professional courtesy where situations require...but that's it. You might wish to consider that I started out seeking nothing more than some reasonable, workable accord with the west. There's just no reasoning with delusional unfortunates, during the phase of active addiction to crack, Nic, meth, heroin, .......whatever the source of the mental and spiritual illness.