US pilot labor thread 6/14-6/20

[trunion]

Your concern is so touching. You want to help us save our jobs. OR -- you just want our money to help fund USAPA's attempt to create a seniority list that advantages the East. Words are meanlingless; actions are everything. Drop the seniority issue and then we'll talk about joining forces against our common enemies.

How does a seniority list based on DOH favor any group over the other, if it includes fences to protect the jobs each group brought to the merger.

I'm sorry, but it looks like none of you are feeling very confident in your growth potential out west, or you would be very happy with this arrangement. I don't see any east pilots looking at the fences as a problem.

I know you will now explain that you had a chance to take east jobs and it was earned by you in the arbitration... That is exactly the proof that the arbitration was a windfall to the west. The proof is in the whining and crying on this message board.

 

[EastUS]

Are you threatening a lawsuit because someone said something on a public forum to anonymous members? I can post the video from Utube, which was televised by a St Louis TV station, if you like. Apparently some folks in St Louis thought it was newsworthy. Also, let's NOT forget the FIRST AMMENDMENT, or have you dismissed it already?

Good luck with that. You'll have about as much luck as your DFR lawsuit you've been threatening against USAPA.

Like the guy on TV says: It's YOUR money, spend it when YOU need it! And lawyers cost a lot of it!

Please don't discourage him/them...as all out there are clearly people of enornous "Integrity", and must do as they see fit....and...I'd love a "litigation result" upgrade to a Christen...or better yet, an Extra Boats aren't my thing. ..assuming any such "case" could make it past the "friviolous and/or malicious" to start with. Countersuit, in this instance, would very likely be a satisfying endeavor.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Your concern is so touching. You want to help us save our jobs. OR -- you just want our money to help fund USAPA's attempt to create a seniority list that advantages the East. Words are meanlingless; actions are everything. Drop the seniority issue and then we'll talk about joining forces against our common enemies.

You were in the parentheses. Didn't think you would get it. That's why.

 

[luvn737s]

I'm certain there are lots of westie lurkers that come here to read this stuff. I wish to pass along something to those folks (nothing I say will ever sink into the thick skulls of the westie blatherers, so you guys can ignore this.)

USAPA is obligated by law to defend all the US Airways pilots who are members in good standing, or who pay germane fees for contract administration. When the first invoice arrives at your home, think twice before righteously shredding it.

Once you are clearly in arrears for payment, USAPA's obligation to defend you if you get your "tit in a ringer," operationally speaking, is basically nil. (They will actually be in process of getting you fired, so don't expect any help.) You are out there plying your trade with no safety net for unintentional errors that happen to get company or FAA attention. But, of course, you always have your "integrity" to fall back on! Bring that to the unemployment line to get the weekly "integrity" special.

Good luck. Be careful out there.

You've made your threat of the day (in lieu of a good deed for the day - must be a LGA thing) so your quota is complete. Get to the back of the line. AAA737pilot is next followed by Oldie and Eastus (in seniority order, natch)

I would go one better. Since you get no viable representation from USAPA, you should plan on being on your own for any item, just like the rest of the non-union pilot groups out there. Bradford will happily put an all-out effort into billing, but he'll have to get back to you on who will represent you and provide any needed services. The best aspects of the customer service of the cable company, brought to organized labor.

I remember when ALPA would take prospective members out to dinner - USAPA sends you a threatening letter (or harasses you with a pointless lawsuit).

ALPA provided a printed copy of it's Constitution and ByLaws - USAPA says, "Don't worry, just leave it to us. You don't need a copy of the Constitution; you can't change it anyway."

ALPA held regular elections where members could choose whomever they wanted to serve them - USAPA's dictator for life chooses those who will not challenge his authority.

Are you still glad you bought this pig in a poke? 😀

Now it's 28 pages and no explanation of exactly when the first election will be held. As expected.

Good luck. Be careful out there.

Your concern is touching to say the least.

 

[EastUS]

I remember when ALPA would take prospective members out to dinner - USAPA sends you a threatening letter (or harasses you with a pointless lawsuit).

ALPA provided a printed copy of it's Constitution and ByLaws - USAPA says, "Don't worry, just leave it to us. You don't need a copy of the Constitution; you can't change it anyway."

ALPA held regular elections where members could choose whomever they wanted to serve them - USAPA's dictator for life chooses those who will not challenge his authority.

Choke...sniffle...You're right...if it weren't for all the "little things"...billions in thrown away pensions, hideous, and continually deteriorating work rules and wages...ever-diminishing health benefits..and of course "relative seniority"...but hey..what's the value of such trivial issues when compared with" I remember when ALPA would take prospective members out to dinner "....Waaah!...I miss Alpa a lot myself...sniffle

"I remember when ALPA would take prospective members out to dinner" Sheesh!..and THAT impressed you!?...That's NOTHING...true fact = I once received a free copy of the Baghavad Ghita from a devout Hare Krishna on Telegraph Avenue long ago. I still have the book..which made lengthy and enjoyable discourse with a passing devotee of Krishna of far more lasting value than any association with Alpa proved to be. In fact...it's disrespectfull to the former to have me even associate him with such as Alpa.

PS: An added observation. I recall from the mentioned conversation that the fellow espousing Krishna Conciousness offered the concept that individuals can "make their own alternate reality". Enjoy living in yours.

 

[luvn737s]

Choke...sniffle...You're right...if it weren't for all the "little things"...billions in thrown away pensions, hideous, and continually deteriorating work rules and wages...ever-diminishing health benefits..and of course "relative seniority"...but hey..what's the value of such trivial issues when compared with" I remember when ALPA would take prospective members out to dinner "....Waaah!...I miss Alpa a lot myself...sniffle

But still you never quit ALPA, right? A dues paying member (or not - ALPA wasn't about to rock the boat by following the law and terminating delinquents {and I mean that in the most generous use of the word}) right up until you signed your little USAPA card guaranteeing liberty,prosperity,fraternity,security (oh, well 1 out of 4 ain't bad).

I'm glad there is a small contingent out there who is satisfied with the dictators provision. Glad that it's as small as it is, that is.

 

[EastUS]

I'm glad there is a small contingent out there ....

Indeed.. a very small, even tiny, insignificant contingent....so you've nothing at all to worry about..and I know, I know = "You wont even get 200 cards!!"

"....the concept that individuals can "make their own alternate reality". Enjoy living in yours." 😉

last thought = Seriously..have a good evening. Heck..if it helps at all..should we ever be so situated?..I'll get the check for dinner 😉

 

[nycbusdriver]

You've made your threat of the day (in lieu of a good deed for the day - must be a LGA thing) so your quota is complete. Get to the back of the line. AAA737pilot is next followed by Oldie and Eastus (in seniority order, natch)

I would go one better. Since you get no viable representation from USAPA, you should plan on being on your own for any item, just like the rest of the non-union pilot groups out there. Bradford will happily put an all-out effort into billing, but he'll have to get back to you on who will represent you and provide any needed services. The best aspects of the customer service of the cable company, brought to organized labor.

I remember when ALPA would take prospective members out to dinner - USAPA sends you a threatening letter (or harasses you with a pointless lawsuit).

ALPA provided a printed copy of it's Constitution and ByLaws - USAPA says, "Don't worry, just leave it to us. You don't need a copy of the Constitution; you can't change it anyway."

ALPA held regular elections where members could choose whomever they wanted to serve them - USAPA's dictator for life chooses those who will not challenge his authority.

Are you still glad you bought this pig in a poke? 😀

Now it's 28 pages and no explanation of exactly when the first election will be held. As expected.



Your concern is touching to say the least.

ALPA never took anyone out to dinner. The members who paid the dues took the chosen few out to dinner, but the members only got the bill....not the dinners.

USAPA is not in the business of taking me out to dinner. USAPA is my union and I expect them to use my dues money for that business.

I don't need USAPA to send me a copy of the C&BL. It's been available for my reading at my leisure for months now on their website. It spells out exactly how long the interim terms of office are and when the elections for successors are to be held. It's great reading for those interested enough (and grown up enough) to do so. (Those of us who can read and comprehend have seen this fact posted here before.)

I was happy to vote in the USAPA C&BL as well as the interim officers. That election was legally recognized by the NMB. I am entirely content with exactly how USAPA is conducting business, spending my dues money on US Airways pilots and not some "mother ship" in Herndon where free dinners are doled out to the chosen few.

But please, feel free to engage in your dues protest. It will mitigate the furloughs of those who really want their jobs.

 

[luvn737s]

Nope, there is no reason a represented pilot should have to divulge private information, just to get a copy of the Constitution. A reputable organization would send you a welcoming packet of information which would include a card with your reps contact info, a copy of the Constitution, a copy of the Contract (don't hold your breath on that one ) and other information outlining the value of union membership. I'm sure all that info was included in the treatening letter which reiterated ad nauseum the steps taken to terminate those who dissent. I stand corrected, none of that info is in there. Just pure BS.

And I would surmise that terminating 1800 pilots summarily would not mitigate any furloughs, but result in many, many more. Roulette's fun for everybody!

USAPA is consistent in at least one thing: the are a cheap imitation of ALPA. How expensive they end up being remains to be seen.

Don't bother posting the relevant info here. I'd hate for you to get a threatening letter from the Lil' General yourself.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Nope, there is no reason a represented pilot should have to divulge private information, just to get a copy of the Constitution. A reputable organization would send you a welcoming packet of information which would include a card with your reps contact info, a copy of the Constitution, a copy of the Contract (don't hold your breath on that one ) and other information outlining the value of union membership. I'm sure all that info was included in the treatening letter which reiterated ad nauseum the steps taken to terminate those who dissent. I stand corrected, none of that info is in there. Just pure BS.

And I would surmise that terminating 1800 pilots summarily would not mitigate any furloughs, but result in many, many more. Roulette's fun for everybody!

USAPA is consistent in at least one thing: the are a cheap imitation of ALPA. How expensive they end up being remains to be seen.

Don't bother posting the relevant info here. I'd hate for you to get a threatening letter from the Lil' General yourself.

Dissent is one thing. Not paying your financial obligations is another. By the way, termination for nonpayment of agency fees is MANDATORY, not optional.

I'm sure there will be MORE than 1800 pilots on the street looking for work that would gladly join a collective bargaining agent other than ALPA.

 

[flynomore]

I seem to remember getting all of that from the mothership AFTER submitting a card on the dinner you refer to. It was at the Glass Tower, a place not likely listed in the Zagat survey, ya know like that hotel in Bal Harbor?

Why don't you ask some of your other HP friends that were added to the TWU about whether any of your listed items were delivered to them either but I think you know the answer.

The point is that the information is there IFF you want it. From your writing I would say that you really don't want the information. Very well.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Nope, there is no reason a represented pilot should have to divulge private information, just to get a copy of the Constitution. A reputable organization would send you a welcoming packet of information which would include a card with your reps contact info, a copy of the Constitution, a copy of the Contract (don't hold your breath on that one ) and other information outlining the value of union membership. I'm sure all that info was included in the treatening letter which reiterated ad nauseum the steps taken to terminate those who dissent. I stand corrected, none of that info is in there. Just pure BS.

And I would surmise that terminating 1800 pilots summarily would not mitigate any furloughs, but result in many, many more. Roulette's fun for everybody!

USAPA is consistent in at least one thing: the are a cheap imitation of ALPA. How expensive they end up being remains to be seen.

Don't bother posting the relevant info here. I'd hate for you to get a threatening letter from the Lil' General yourself.

1800 pilots won't be terminated. It will only take a relative handful....maybe 10. The other 1790 will quickly "get religion" and send in their germane fees. Too bad about the first bunch that the company decides to pursue. When they get to the unemployment agency, maybe they'll have a special lane for "Dues Protesters with Integrity."

 

[checksix]

Now it's 28 pages and no explanation of exactly when the first election will be held. As expected.

USAPA C&BL attached, you can research it yourself if you are so inclined. I don't know that it will answer your question, however. If it doesn't, I would suggest calling the Secretary Treasurer. It's a toll free number, won't cost you a dime.

Let us know what you find out, I'd be interested to hear the plans.

Have a good evening.

 

[767jetz]

First you say this:

Actually, my numbers are probably a little low. UAL has 8000 pilots, and 460 aircraft presently. They are parking 100, which is 22 percent of their aircraft. 22 percent of 8000 pilots is 1760 pilots.

Then you say this:

No, my numbers were 1200-1500. Yours were 500-700. I KNOW my estimate will be closer. even at the numbers you quoted, which are likely wrong, I'm closer.

My how you flip flop. Either way you are wrong. As usual.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

First you say this:



Then you say this:



My how you flip flop. Either way you are wrong. As usual.

No, go back and read the thread. I said 1200-1500, but that my estimate may be low, and I gave the math as to why. You can look at post #84, page 9 of this thread.

You, sir, are not truthful, and, it appears, suffering from denial.

If I'm wrong, then what ARE the real numbers? Just as I thought, MORE of your hot air!

You really should wait until they announce the numbers before you make yourself look even less mentally gifted.