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US pilot labor thread 6/28-7/4

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Much better. 😉



Fair enough. I never criticized you for standing up for what you believe. Nor would I. We can disagree, even passionately, without being offensive or making it personal. Just keep in mind that I've every right to my opinion as well. And I can be just as sure as to the inherent fairness and righteousness of my position and that of the West as you and your 2800 East brothers are of your position. In the end, the only thing that will matter is the final result. Until then there is nothing but opinions, and no real need for anyone to be in the line of fire.
If only the West contingent felt as you do...

Dolls hanging in cockpits making national news...please.

OK, I'll accept that you're as passionate as I am...so long as we understand each other.

By the way, I thought as "trade workers" that the "company " was the "enemy"....so why do pilots fight so much? ..you, sir, are absolutely not my enemy...I wasn't even sure I had one until recently.
 
Capt Tom wrote:

My interest is in seeing if you're able to set aside a binding arbitration award, and if you're able to achieve a joint contract.
[/quote]

[color="#0000FF"]One - there is nothing to set aside, outside the auspices of ALPA. The governing senioroty lists, respectively, reside in their contracts. The list that ends up in the next contract (joint by definition) will be the governing list going forward.

Two - Any contract going forward will be a joint contract under a single CBA - USAPA, ratified by the majority of eligible voters.
[/color]
 
By the way, I thought as "trade workers" that the "company " was the "enemy"

It is. Unfortunately, several perfect storms have created a toxic environment, particularly in the history of USAirways with so many mergers over the course of time, that management has been able to parley the disunity into infighting. IMO it didn't help matters that East pilots came to the show already battered from many years of misfortune. (Furloughs going back 18 years is extreme.)

....so why do pilots fight so much?

Don't know for sure. I do have a few theories that pertain to certain anal retentive and somewhat narcissistic tendencies that are somewhat common and in some ways almost desirable in pilots, nurses, and doctors, etc. Some can temper those tendencies and draw on them when needed. Others can not. But those theories go far beyond the scope of this forum.

..you, sir, are absolutely not my enemy...
Nor you mine. BTW, nice yacht! Hope it's yours to enjoy and not just a picture of something to come one day. There are many more things in life than airplanes and aviation.

Happy 4th.
 
Captain Tom,

I have a question for you. Would you agree or disagree that when the Union and the Company are in negotiations that ALL sections of the contract are open and that changes can be made to said sections? Or are there sections of the contract that cannot be changed?

An example of what I am referring to would be Section 22 of the ALPA contracts of both the East and the West, the section regarding seniority and how that seniority shall be applied.

Section 22 of the AWA contract states “Seniority of a Pilot shall begin on the Pilot’s Date
of Hire.â€￾

Section 22 of the US Airways contract states “The Pilots' System Seniority List, as established by the Award of Arbitrator S. Kagel dated October 31, 1988, shall constitute the official Pilots' System Seniority List. (Kagel was the arbitrator in the USAir and Piedmont merger)

As you can see, even though both contracts were APLA sanctioned, they differ greatly in the language and documents referenced for establishing a pilots relative position for the purposes of promotion, demotion, retention in the case of furlough, etc., etc.

If the West’s position were to be taken, it would in essence say that Section 22 (or the equivalent) has already been decided and that it cannot be changed.

IMHO, I believe that all sections are open (including seniority) to negotiations. No where that I know of says that USAPA must reference any particular document concerning seniority, including the Nic award. The Nic award in the new contract will simply not be referenced at all.

Ready, fire, aim!

Joe
 
Indeed...likewise.

it is actually my brother's boat in St. Thomas...I am but a small partner. As a retired USAir 76 guy with almost 30 years, he thought his pension was safe. Indeed, it was not. This was to be his retirement "house"...it turns out he has to charter it now and again to pay for it...sans pension.

Turns out he needs help down there, and it will take very little for me to dissappear down there to do so. I thought this was the career for me...I really feel bad for my wife and kids...they don't deserve this result of a hard-fought career...and I can't explain it.
 
Indeed...likewise.

it is actually my brother's boat in St. Thomas...

Turns out he needs help down there, and it will take very little for me to dissappear down there to do so....I really feel bad for my wife and kids...they don't deserve this result of a hard-fought career...and I can't explain it.

What, they dont get to come too? Is it a shrimp boat - OoOh!! I've heard of that boat, is it called the Jenny? More importantly, can I please be co pirate? I have been working on my RRRRRRRRs......
 
What, they dont get to come too? Is it a shrimp boat - OoOh!! I've heard of that boat, is it called the Jenny? More importantly, can I please be co pirate? I have been working on my RRRRRRRRs......
I didn't say they don't get to come...but it can be a hard sell. And frankly. I'm all fresh outta ideas....I thought being a responsible airline pilot who is held to as high a standard as there is in industry would do it... and in that, I was wrong. We are exploited, shat upon, plundered, and abused...and the fact that it results in the 2% of society who can get to this point fighting incessantly...the system is faulty...there are VERY few who get to "our level of proficiency"...and yet we wind up hating each other over the unfairness of our results.

It sad...and I am looking for an "out".
 
I didn't say they don't get to come...but it can be a hard sell. And frankly. I'm all fresh outta ideas....I thought being a responsible airline pilot who is held to as high a standard as there is in industry would do it... and in that, I was wrong. We are exploited, shat upon, plundered, and abused...and the fact that it results in the 2% of society who can get to this point fighting incessantly...the system is faulty...there are VERY few who get to "our level of proficiency"...and yet we wind up hating each other over the unfairness of our results.

It sad...and I am looking for an "out".
You know what? Look on the bright side! I just saved 15% on my insurance by using Geico!!!!

:wub:
 
Cute, but I'm being serious....maybe you should have a latte'.
 
Elixir, it is a great looking boat. We once lived aboard a 42 foot sailboat, but that went after the 1st bk... fond memories though!
 
What type of 'sailer" was it? I have too many stories on boats..lived on a few myself.

I'm sick of fighting over this company, you guys...really.

I'm sick with dissappointment, which is why I'm all too ready to go at it with these guys on here...

The truth is, I just want out....as soon as I can afford it.

PS...76'...nice actually 'talking to you"...
 
What type of 'sailer" was it? I have too many stories on boats..lived on a few myself.

I'm sick of fighting over this company, you guys...really.

I'm sick with dissappointment, which is why I'm all too ready to go at it with these guys on here...

The truth is, I just want out....as soon as I can afford it.

Hunter 42, primary cruising areas were FL and the Bahamas... We too have many stories... but we won't bore non-boating types here...
 
Hunter 42, primary cruising areas were FL and the Bahamas... We too have many stories... but we won't bore non-boating types here...
Hunter 42'....FABULOUS BOAT...!

Wow....

Love to hear them someday...

The cruiser in my avatar is a 60' hatteras...

but my personal fav is a 52' Irwin..

peace.
 
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