US pilot labor thread 7/13-7/20

[electricjet98]

hp fa,

Do you agree that plaintiffs often use the wrong venue to file suit? I see North Carolina clearly now. 😱 Perhaps that is where the lawsuit should have been filed in the first instance.

UU

Perhaps, it shouldn't have been filed at all. But had they filed in NC originally, they would have missed the opportunity to seek the financial vengence and retribution on the AWA pilots that they also seek with their DOH proposal. Some "leadership" you have there!

"USAPA originally elected to pursue a federal RICO claim because of the special remedies that are available under that statute, including treble damages and attorney's fees."

The audacity of these guys is simply overwhelming and continues to build the wall separating east & west. They did not wish to simply recover their their damages and legal fee's; they wanted to financially harm their fellow pilots as much as possible...sort of like DOH. Perhaps this excerpt may even find its way into the eventual DFR lawsuit; it certainly reveals their true motivation and moral character!

Don't worry though, just as Seehem's RICO claim has proven to be a "fool's errand", so shall his reasoning regarding DOH.

 

[sharktooth]

I believe that I suggested that anyone using the court system with the intent of sending a message should keep that to themselves.

Indeed. and, how is that different from what I posted?

 

[hp_fa]

Indeed. and, how is that different from what I posted?

If I recall correctly, Oldie had stated that is was his belief that USAPA was trying to minimize penalties to people who may have acted badly. When a copy of The President's Letter was posted yesterday it specifically said that RICO had been pled so at to get trebled damages and attorneys fees, which then caused me to make the comment about so much for Oldie's belief that they were trying to minimize damage to the potential wrongdoers.

Does that make it clear?

 

[EastUS]

Perhaps, it shouldn't have been filed at all. But had they filed in NC originally, they would have missed the opportunity to seek the financial vengence and retribution on the AWA pilots that they also seek with their DOH proposal.

Ummm..." to seek the financial vengence and retribution on the AWA pilots"? Unbelievable....Don't flatter yourself. There's only a tiny corner of the world that thinks you guys are some "Special People" and "Great, Righteous Cause" to be concerned with..and that's exclusively your little group. No one's out for any "vengeance" that I know of. That sort of "thinking" requires an entirely adolescant life perspective, and has nothing to do with the conditions at hand. Preventing complete idiots, intent only upon sabotage, from continuing to act out the part's hardly a measure of sought "vengeance".

You believe yourself badly used via DOH...which virtually ALL other labor groups take to be an essential given, a basic principle of Unionism, and ALL other groups on this property found to be both reasonable and appropriate....but not you guys...because you're so amazingly "Special" I suppose? Indulge that particular fantasy as you go through life at your own peril. Note how wonderfully well such insanely narcicisstic BS's working even within this little corporate microcosm. Don't be astonished if, within this world of 6 Billion+ souls... it proves out that no global holiday is likely forthcoming for the valiant band of 1700 you have out there...and the day involving St Nic remains properly limited to December the 25th.

If you honestly believe that either AWA or US would still exist without this sorry merger...you're "High"..end of statment. No side "saved" the other, and the only thing you have to suport your "Righteous Position" is a perversely birthed lottery ticket....which you can't cash. Get a clue, a grip and get over yourselves. We're tied up in this sorry mess together and the only people "laughing" sit within management. A contract's to be negotiated..and all you people are doing is running about like headless chickens.....while management pre-heats the broiler for you.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

If I recall correctly, Oldie had stated that is was his belief that USAPA was trying to minimize penalties to people who may have acted badly. When a copy of The President's Letter was posted yesterday it specifically said that RICO had been pled so at to get trebled damages and attorneys fees, which then caused me to make the comment about so much for Oldie's belief that they were trying to minimize damage to the potential wrongdoers.

Does that make it clear?

I guess you don't consider a fine rather than jail time to be minimized?

Hmmm. I guess the US Justice system has gotten too "soft".

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

The take on this whole lawsuit is rather simple. Usap felt that they needed to reign in a couple guys making too many phone calls on the union house number. Not being real sharp at devising a way to do this, usap Central Command did what slow thinkers always do: they ran to their lawyer.

Lawyer happily answers phone, as lawyers always do, instantly smells money. So he says, we can nail these boys on some nasty federal wrap - RICO sounds good - and bankrupt them all. But first we need to sweeten the pot some. Let's get some more dirt - and maybe even create some of our own (i.e. feces). Lawyer digs for more dirt (@~300 smackers/hr). A couple JS incidents, a couple "egregious" AWAPPA webboard posts, and we're all set to go. I'll bet they even haulded everything down to the courthouse in their cute little wooden box.

One minor problem: lawyer is slow thinker too! He's doesn't realize that his little RICO ploy was DOA from the get-go. Wrong jurisdiction. Must have been that potential for "special remedies" which clouded his mind. Oh well, sends invoice to usap anyway. And says he'd be happy to try 'er again - state, county, city, HOA - it doesn't matter. Lawer is willing to stick to it until justice, or the entire usap bankroll (whichever comes first), is served.

Of course leader of usapia must save face. Waits till his tears dry up and then sends marginally crafty letter out to the serfs: we know the bastards are guilty, we just got the wrong sheriff this time. In any case, we sure hammered them westyz - yes sir, those boys have been surely shown that we leader-types know our stuff and that usap means business. First we waxed 'em on that Nic thing, and now we cut 'em off at the pass with our fake RICO fest. Only thing is, we don't want to bring up any talk about how much dolleros this little caper cost every member. Don't really want to stir up the natives just yet. Maybe after we actually win something we can tip toe into some financials, but right now just ain't the time.



So.....what d'ya think usapa types? Is this pretty close to how it's played out so far? Usap can't kill the Nic and they can't seem to be able to control their constituents - or their tendency to run to the lawyer for help. This is not the track record of a successful union. The only one getting ahead so far, it appears, is Seham. Is this what y'all had in mind when you voted?


INTEGRITY MATTERS

NLC

 

[electricjet98]

No one's out for any "vengeance" that I know of.

How else do you rationalize seeking not just damages and legal fee's, but trebled damages?

 

[EastUS]

The take on this whole lawsuit is rather simple. Usap felt that they needed to reign in a couple guys making too many phone calls on the union house number. Not being real sharp at devising a way to do this, usap Central Command did what slow thinkers always do: they ran to their lawyer.

Enough with the BS. Exactly how would YOU have handled it? I'll assume that you're not busy on the phone, nor licking envelopes, or hanging dolls at the moment, and have time for a considered answer?

As for your: "Usap can't kill the Nic and they can't seem to be able to control their constituents" Might one assume then, that since your folks are always acting with the utmost of well disciplined, self control...that what was done via the above was done at the behest of your noble AWAPPA "leadership"? 😉 Here..have some more rope. It should be ok, since I don't see any children's dolls around at the moment.......and thusly, you only have the ability to "hang" yourself.

electricjet98: "How else do you rationalize seeking not just damages and legal fee's, but trebled damages?" My understanding is that such isn't the least bit uncommon within such filings. I'm no trained attorney, so my opinion's only from word of mouth on that. Return question = How do you/ANYONE rationalize the bizarre behaviors of some of your fellows out there that necessitated some response in the first place?

 

[BoeingBoy]

I guess you don't consider a fine rather than jail time to be minimized?

USAPA doesn't have the power to file or prosecute a criminal case, so any possibility of jail time is in other hands. It has been posted here that evidence of alleged criminal behavior was turned over to the the proper authorities who do have the power to institute criminal proceedings, so it certainly appears that USAPA was doing everything it could to get criminal proceedings initiated as well as initiating civil proceedings under the RICO statutes with the previously mentioned treble damages. Sounds like every effort was made to maximize the harm to the alleged perpetrators.

BTW, I don't think civil courts hand out fines, but HP-FA could correct me. I believe civil courts issue judgements, which can include damages (the economic equivalent of criminal court fines).

Jim

 

[electricjet98]

Unbelievable....Don't flatter yourself. There's only a tiny corner of the world that thinks you guys are some "Special People" and "Great, Righteous Cause" to be concerned with..and that's exclusively your little group.

That sort of "thinking" requires an entirely adolescant life perspective, and has nothing to do with the conditions at hand.

because you're so amazingly "Special" I suppose? Indulge that particular fantasy as you go through life at your own peril. Note how wonderfully well such insanely narcicisstic BS's working even within this little corporate microcosm. Don't be astonished if, within this world of 6 Billion+ souls... it proves out that no global holiday is likely forthcoming for the valiant band of 1700 you have out there...and the day involving St Nic remains properly limited to December the 25th.

If you honestly believe that either AWA or US would still exist without this sorry merger...you're "High"..end of statment.

Get a clue, a grip and get over yourselves.

A contract's to be negotiated..and all you people are doing is running about like headless chickens.....while management pre-heats the broiler for you.

Since you seem to have all of the time and answers (and the need to take a little breather to get that blood pressure down), maybe you'd like to 'riddle me this"!

Can you find where the Judge made the statement that FO Bradford quoted in his update?

Item One – USAPA President Steve Bradford released A Presidents Message tonight that discusses the decision that Judge Martin Reidinger issued on Friday, July 11th dismissing USAPA’s cause of action against AWAPPA and its co-defendants under the RICO act. Judge Reidinger dismissed USAPA’s cause of action “without prejudice so that the claims may be re-filed in the appropriate state court.â€￾


Personal Info
EastUS
Veteran
Age Unknown years old
Gender Not Set
Location Unknown
Birthday Unknown
Interests
No Information
Statistics
Joined: 7-May 07
Profile Views: 975*
Last Seen: Today, 10:29 AM
Viewing Board Index
Local Time: Jul 14 2008, 01:32 PM
2,624 posts (6.05 per day)

 

[oldiebutgoody]

USAPA doesn't have the power to file or prosecute a criminal case, so any possibility of jail time is in other hands. It has been posted here that evidence of alleged criminal behavior was turned over to the the proper authorities who do have the power to institute criminal proceedings, so it certainly appears that USAPA was doing everything it could to get criminal proceedings initiated as well as initiating civil proceedings under the RICO statutes with the previously mentioned treble damages. Sounds like every effort was made to maximize the harm to the alleged perpetrators.

BTW, I don't think civil courts hand out fines, but HP-FA could correct me. I believe civil courts issue judgements, which can include damages (the economic equivalent of criminal court fines).

Jim

We all know that you are pro ALPA and AWAPPA all-the-way, so save it. I never really expected that you or anyone else would defend the childish actions in the complaint, but I see now I was wrong

Here's the definition of a "fine" from Merriam-Webster:
Main Entry: 1fine
Pronunciation: \ˈfīn\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French fin, fine, from Latin finis boundary, end
Date: 13th century
1obsolete : end, conclusion
2: a compromise of a fictitious suit used as a form of conveyance of lands
3 a: a sum imposed as punishment for an offense b: a forfeiture or penalty paid to an injured party in a civil action

Looks like #3 fits this situation rather nicely.

So, if what you are saying is correct, the criminal case may already be forthcoming.

 

[EastUS]

Since you seem to have all of the time and answers (and the need to take a little breather to get that blood pressure down), maybe you'd like to 'riddle me this"!

I couldn't honestly care much less about the courtroom BS attendant to this issue myself, as it appears that your most hearty hooligans, and seemingly insane fellows out there got the message and have desisted from their "actions"...or, are at least no longer mailing them out.

As for "blood pressure"? = "Arrgh! ..(claps chest in agony and collapses to the floor awaiting paramedics...and much rejoicing's heard in the west from an actual seniority number falling) 😉

"maybe you'd like to 'riddle me this"! Given that "A contract's to be negotiated..and all you people are doing is running about like headless chickens.....while management pre-heats the broiler for you." What do you see to be any projectable net gain from your group's held positon of "Waah!..We don't have a Union!"? I mean seriously..within any/all contexts of the actual, real world?

 

[hp_fa]

I guess you don't consider a fine rather than jail time to be minimized?

Hmmm. I guess the US Justice system has gotten too "soft".

Trebled damages, attorneys fees and costs isn't what I personally would classify as minimizing a potential penalty. Neither USAPA not its attorneys, or any other victim in any other matter, has any definitive say whether or not a matter is filed in a criminal court. That is the realm of a prosecutor. There is a distinct difference between criminal courts and civil courts.

I, along with the rest of us, has no knowledge of whether or not any criminal action may be filed and we won't know until a prosecutor either obtains an indictment or proceeds to a preliminary hearing. None of that is new. It is the way our jurisprudence system has worked for many years.

 

[EastUS]

There is a distinct difference between criminal courts and civil courts.
It is the way our jurisprudence system has worked for many years.

Sure is...Ojay's "Not guilty" but still has attendant civil liabilies for the murders that he's "not guilty" of. Is this a great system, staffed only with the finest, and most discerning minds within society..or what? :blink: 🙄 I'm sometimes reminded of an ancient saying, going back at least 1,000 years = "Where there's law..no man gets justice" 😉

 

[hp_fa]

BTW, I don't think civil courts hand out fines, but HP-FA could correct me. I believe civil courts issue judgements, which can include damages (the economic equivalent of criminal court fines).

Jim, it depends on how you define "fine". For example, most non-serious traffic violations are decided in a civil court rather than a criminal court. The civil court, enforcing administrative provisions of the regulations of a motor vehicle department, may impose fines. A civil court, in which an allegation of abuse of process has occurred, may fine the offending party and its attorneys. So, as you can see, there are indeed circumstances where a civil court can impose fines. Remember that fines are different than damages.

Criminal courts can impose fines as part of a judgment handed down against a criminal defendant.

Does that help at all?