US pilot labor thread 7/13-7/20

[lynyrdskynyrd]

The east "reality distortion field" does ok, until it runs into a federal judge or the dean of arbitrators. In my opinion, anyway. Actually, it's not just my opinion, the record seems to show the same thing. Well I'll be darned.

 

[UtterlyUdder]

All of the above is worthy of repeating a time or ten. Finally, someone said it.

Are any east pilots capable of independant thought? Or do they just repeat their carefully crafted, spoon fed spin?

Of course they are! USAirways has been around for a very long time. How long has AWA been around? 15-17 years? I find the disagreements the West pilots have are based in the final outcome of the seniority list which will most likely be straight DOH with fences.

No one seems to ask often why it is fair for a West pilot with 3 or so years be flying from the left seat with an East pilot to his right who has 20 years on him.

Oh yes........that danged arbitration which I understand was Mr Nic's last job and at 86 years old, no less. Now he is in Ireland.........retired and out of reach. Wasn't that unusual for Mr. Nic given his history with arbitration? If so, one has to wonder wah hoppen??? I can't even think of one cogent reason he did that.

UU

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

[quote name= USAirways has been around for a very long time. How long has AWA been around? 15-17 years?

UU
[/quote]

I know you can do this, 2008 minus 1983 is how many years? Or even if you go back to the date of the merger, 2005 minus 1983 is how many years?

 

[checksix]

President’s Message
Sunday, July 13, 2008​

Fellow Pilots,

On Friday, July 11th, Judge Martin Reidinger issued a decision dismissing USAPA’s cause of action against AWAPPA and its co-defendants under the RICO act. Due to fact that USAPA’s RICO claim was its sole cause of action under federal law, the federal judge dismissed the remaining state law claims “without prejudice so that these claims may be re-filed in the appropriate state court.â€

USAPA originally elected to pursue a federal RICO claim because of the special remedies that are available under that statute, including treble damages and attorney’s fees. It is notable that, as described in our posting on June 24th, AWAPPA’s Motion to Dismiss actually assumed the truth of USAPA's allegations.

Judge Reidinger concluded that, while the alleged facts supported a finding that the defendants were engaged in a criminal conspiracy to destroy USAPA property, two technical requirements relating to RICO and the Hobbs act were not satisfied. In view of his dismissal of USAPA’s sole federal cause of action, Judge Reidinger determined that the nine state law causes of action alleged in the complaint would be more appropriately adjudicated in a state court. These state law causes of action include counts of civil conspiracy, trespass to chattels, defamation, tortious interference with contractual relations, and a count under the North Carolina Unfair and Deceptive Trade Practices Act.

USAPA must now determine whether to appeal the district court’s decision and/or file a complaint “in the appropriate state court.†The Association’s decision – and the pace at which any future litigation proceeds – will be heavily influenced both by the level of criminal sabotage activity and the defendants’ commitment to refrain from such activity in the future. USAPA is happy to report that the weeks following the filing of the lawsuit saw a significant drop off in telephonic and electronic sabotage. Unfortunately to date, the defendants have uniformly declined to make a binding commitment to refrain from the use of criminal and otherwise unlawful tactics in the future.

USAPA has several options which the BPR will now consider and we will pass that information on to you as soon as it is available.



Sincerely,

Stephen Bradford
President, US Airline Pilots Association

 

[Phoenix]

:unsure:

Yeah, but I want my forum :jerry:

 

[Piedmont1984]

If we are gonna compare USAPA to ALPA and AWAPPA based on a web forum then...

Well we've certainly proved that pilots can complain regardless of who they pay dues to.

FedEx Pilots warned us that we would loose our ALPA web board!!

No it's not that. I just don't think we should be debating and discussing these issues in this venue. I also like to know who is insulting me or vice versa.

 

[sharktooth]

I know you can do this, 2008 minus 1983 is how many years? Or even if you go back to the date of the merger, 2005 minus 1983 is how many years?

Then you may wish to consider acting like an adult, for once. (the vocal part of you)

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Then you may wish to consider acting like an adult, for once. (the vocal part of you)

Ok, point taken. Can you provide the name of the defendant who sent the feces in the mail? I think that is a fair question, is it not? I still have not seen that question answered yet, even though I reiterated that question after it was first posted by another. Why did my juvenile post warrant a response, yet my serious question did not?

 

[EastUS]

QUOTE (EastUS @ Jul 13 2008, 03:48 PM)
Seriously folks, what puzzles me in considering this BS, is just HOW and or WHY would ANYONE, even remotely within the last farthest reaches of their right mind, seek to defend such absurd and disgusting behavior?"

ableoneable: "No one has been defending the alleged feces incident. I have no idea if it really happened or not."

lynyrdskynyrd: "All of the above is worthy of repeating a time or ten. Finally, someone said it."
Are any east pilots capable of independant thought? Or do they just repeat their carefully crafted, spoon fed spin?

QUOTE (prechilill @ Jul 13 2008, 05:40 PM)
Please share with us all the name of the west pilot who sent the feces in the mail. Thanks in a advance."


lynyrdskynyrd: "Anyone? Hello.....Hello.....anyone?"

Elevation:"Are you talking about over turning a final and binding arbitration or something else?"

Yeppers = There's clearly "No one" defending such bizarre behavior...Pure denial and/or equating such with arbitration's no defense...my mistake 🙄 I should have expected such nonsense..after all; wasn't the previous "defense" from at least one west person on the St LO doll incident, some BS fantasy that it was "planted"? 😉 I always admire persons or groups "Integrity" that's inclusive of owning up to their behaviors....aint' gonna' happen out there ever though....
Keep having fun with your petty, pathetic little jumpseat abuse as well if it suits you...I'll NEVER lower myself to your "Professional" standards so as to reciprocate any such BS. "Integrity" my arse.

 

[hp_fa]

The largest problem with USAPA suing those whom they are charged with representing is all of the other named and John Doe defendants. These pilots simply put up posts that said things ranging from; "I don't think any of us should pay dues." to "I am not going to pay dues."

Just to clarify something. John and Jane Does are nearly always included in pleadings to preserve the right to change the name to a natural person if and when their true identity is learned, either in responsive pleadings and/or discovery. By and of itself, there is nothing nefarious about John Does.

 

[EastUS]

Though I think the pilots who called the hotline repeatedly were out of bounds I though the lawsuit was equally over the line.

On this we agree..but...what other remedy was reasonably available to thwart such completely assinine behavior? It wasn't like any/all suggestions to "Grow Up"..."Get a Clue"..and'or "Get your collective heads outta' your tails and conduct yourselves decently" was having the least effect...then or now.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

I haven't seen anyone condoning feces in the mail, I have only seen people questioning whether it is true or not. So far, the only evidence we have is that certain east folks keep repeating it over and over again, which does not make if fact.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

So a handful of guys call a recorded hotline repeatedly, and the only solution you can come up with is a "fatally" flawed Rico case that cost well into six figures?

Spin it all you want, but the true purpose was much more sinister than just getting the phone calls to stop.

 

[hp_fa]

President’s Message
Sunday, July 13, 2008​

Fellow Pilots,

On Friday, July 11th, Judge Martin Reidinger issued a decision dismissing USAPA’s cause of action against AWAPPA and its co-defendants under the RICO act. Due to fact that USAPA’s RICO claim was its sole cause of action under federal law, the federal judge dismissed the remaining state law claims “without prejudice so that these claims may be re-filed in the appropriate state court.â€

USAPA originally elected to pursue a federal RICO claim because of the special remedies that are available under that statute, including treble damages and attorney’s fees. It is notable that, as described in our posting on June 24th, AWAPPA’s Motion to Dismiss actually assumed the truth of USAPA's allegations.

So much for Oldie's belief that USAPA was trying to minimizes penalties against the individuals.

It is notable that, as described in our posting on June 24th, AWAPPA’s Motion to Dismiss actually assumed the truth of USAPA's allegations.

That is the nature of a Motion to Dismiss under Rule 12, Fed.R.Civ.P. The court must look at the assertions within the Complaint as most beneficial to the plaintiff. AWAPPA merely was stating it's position under requirements of Rule 12, in other words in the best light toward the plaintiffs as pled in the Complaint.

Judge Reidinger concluded that, while the alleged facts supported a finding that the defendants were engaged in a criminal conspiracy to destroy USAPA property, two technical requirements relating to RICO and the Hobbs act were not satisfied. In view of his dismissal of USAPA’s sole federal cause of action, Judge Reidinger determined that the nine state law causes of action alleged in the complaint would be more appropriately adjudicated in a state court. These state law causes of action include counts of civil conspiracy, trespass to chattels, defamation, tortious interference with contractual relations, and a count under the North Carolina Unfair and Deceptive Trade Practices Act.

The defects were not technical in the true sense of the word, but were fundamental issues with the failure to meet the requirements for filing a RICO action by failing to even properly plead the requisite elements of RICO within the Complaint and the facts alleged within the Complaint. Also, Judge Reidinger did not actually determine that the remaining causes of action would be more appropriately adjudicated in state court. He threw the entire case out of federal court, with the Counts One and Two dismissed with prejudice and the remaining allegations without prejudice. Saying that the Judge determined these issues would be more appropriate in state court is not fully truthful with the context of the Judge's Order.

USAPA must now determine whether to appeal the district court’s decision and/or file a complaint “in the appropriate state court.†The Association’s decision – and the pace at which any future litigation proceeds – will be heavily influenced both by the level of criminal sabotage activity and the defendants’ commitment to refrain from such activity in the future. USAPA is happy to report that the weeks following the filing of the lawsuit saw a significant drop off in telephonic and electronic sabotage. Unfortunately to date, the defendants have uniformly declined to make a binding commitment to refrain from the use of criminal and otherwise unlawful tactics in the future.

I'm sorry, but this paragraph is pure spin. There has been no finding of "criminal sabotage activity" and as far as I know the defendants have made no such "commitment to refrain from such activity in the future." (However, please note that I have never condoned any of the alleged conduct.)

This letter was, in my opinion, carefully crafted. While it wasn't a total work of fiction it appears to be, at a minimum, deceiving. A USAPA member, who pays his/her dues and simply goes to work every day and leaves the union work to the leaders, might not fully understand what he/she is being told solely from the content of this President's Message. Knowing that I have seen some of you say nice things about Mr. Bradford I am willing to consider that someone wrote this letter for him and put it out under his name.

OK, I am done commenting on this letter. It is, IMO, pure spin.

 

[Phoenix]

No it's not that. I just don't think we should be debating and discussing these issues in this venue. I also like to know who is insulting me or vice versa.

Fair enough. I have to admit that I miss keeping all the brilliant posts that the West guys posted. JJ and his friends had an amazing ability to write things down as if no one was keeping a list to see who was naughty or nice.

A private web forum wouldn't hurt but it wouldn't really be private. I remember when McV posted on the East board. It was a beautiful ALPA moment of truth, to his chagrin. The web board will happen in due time. For now I see bigger fish to fry.