US pilot labor thread 7/5-7/12

[AAA73Pilot]

You provide a glimpse around here from all your posts with your eternal hopes of a last- ditch "hail mary" pass at backing out of your agreement with the west from three years ago. USAPA was born because of Nicolau and you guys use an arbitrator's decision to fuel your endless whining of your imagined injustices you claim were handed to you by ALPA. Cry all you want, fork up as much legal dollars as you like and exchange endless support messages like a battered wives support group with your little collection of elderly friends- reality doesn't change what lies in store for you and it certainly doesn't change the past.

In the end, after suffering a few more legal defeats from your ambulance chasing legal counsel, you may realize emotions got the better of you. A joint contract three years ago would have put 100k in your pocket today as you soon head to the unemployment line. And once USAir *finally* goes belly up like it should have in May, 2005, Nicolau will be irrelevant anyway, just like you wanted. Parker thanks you for saving him so much money.

Sorry dear, my posts have always been more pragmatic than a "Hail Mary". If you take the time to research them, I support(ed) the effort over Nic, but my first goal has always been the removal of ALPA from the property. Thats not too hard to understand now, is it? How much more clearer can I make it? No emotion there.

Since ALPA is gone, I'll accept whatever happens. Even if USAPA loses every lawsuit it's involved in, I will still be happy that ALPA is.......just off the property. They may come back if we merge with somebody, it doesn't mean I will rejoin or even stay around. Like you I have my options. So the unemployment line is not in my immediate future yet. I say yet as I don't like to look that far into the future as you seem so capable of doing. BTW. How's that all working out so far?

As for my "Elderly friends"? Whats your point? I have friends of all ages, just like you do. Your attempted jab at my colleagues only shows that you cannot be relied on when really needed. So I will take my friends, and you keep yours. Then we'll both be happy.

Lastly, what's "In store" from you really doesn't bother me. I will rely on the near present over your future prognostications and deal with the issues accordingly.

 

[EastUS]

Why are you so frustrated, EastUS? Gosh, take a breath of fresh air and shake hands with the next west pilot you see in the terminal. You guys need to put your legal vengeance to rest. Peace.

I'm not the least bit frustrated with events as they are developing, nor do I have any childish desire for any "vengeance"...From what I've seen in life..your group's nonsense hardly rates as being anything to be so upset by..I'll cheerfully leave the adolescant nonsense to you and yours. Amazingly enough?..I've shaken hands with a few of your folks. I will note that the "thought" processes continually demonstrated from west posters continues to be a source of amusement though, and in that..I'll stand by the link as being fully representative of your evident "thinking", your "behavior", and that of ardent supporters of your lost "cause"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjWYHeg8_5I

PS: Any hopes for eventual, english translation for such standard gems as: "reality doesn't change what lies in store for you"? 😉 As for your "as you soon head to the unemployment line." All I can say is whew!...I'm pleased to have never shared your interesting "optimism" during any phase of my own life. You make much of not personally being concerned with such a possiblity, and seem entirely unconcerned with the effects such would have on less fortunate pilots...of which I'm hardly one, but I do care about those less well situated..but then?..It's never been "All about MEEE!" in my book. Others perceive things differently it seems.

 

[EastUS]

FWIW....I would rather fly with a 50 something or even 60 something pilot any day of the week....experience like that is priceless.

That's much appreciated. Thank you.

 

[prechilill]

I'm not the least bit frustrated with events as they are developing, nor do I have any childish desire for any "vengeance"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjWYHeg8_5I

Not the least bit frustrated huh. Ok. Sure. I guess after a lifetime of setbacks, paycuts and being kicked in the part that hurts a lot you develop a little better tolerance for disappointment and failure over time. Good on ya!

By the way, when I was in high school I would watch those videos like the one you linked to u-tube. So, when do you plan on growing up?

 

[ALPO NO MO]

Lawsuit was dismissed on purely technical grounds. The court dismissed the case -- despite the fact that it assumed the truth of the allegations concerning criminal activity -- based on its technical analysis of the federal RICO statute. Originally, RICO was designed to address organized crime and, thus, courts have held that the a requirement under the statute was a "continuity" of operation. The court found that the requisite continuity did not exist. Because the RICO cause of action was the sole federal cause of action, the multiple state causes of action have been dismissed for lack of federal jurisdiction. The court specifically held that these state causes of action were dismissed without prejudice and that USAPA is free to re-file in state court.



Short answer: the court opinioned that since RICO did not apply, the proper venue is state court. No ruling whatsoever was made on the merits of the case; this was simply a technical ruling dealing primarily with determining appropriate venue.

 

[N924PS]

Not the least bit frustrated huh. Ok. Sure. I guess after a lifetime of setbacks, paycuts and being kicked in the part that hurts a lot you develop a little better tolerance for disappointment and failure over time. Good on ya!

By the way, when I was in high school I would watch those videos like the one you linked to u-tube. So, when do you plan on growing up?

Actually, I believe most of the posters you are adressing with your comment have had great sucesses in their lifetimes. I believe one or more of them are USAF Academy graduates, distinguished military pilots, and former Captains at Airways.

In fact, most of their careers, they have enjoyed better contracts and quality of life than you might imagine. The setbacks and frustrations started just after 9-11-01 (maybe you were still in high school watching those videos when that went down) and continued through 2 CH 11 bankruptcies.

I certainly hope AWAPPA can bring forth their litigation as soon as possible so the outcome can be determined and this pilot group can move on. In case you haven't noticed, the industry is in it's worst crisis ever, and at the very least we should all be working together to ensure we have jobs after 2009.

Hoping you won't endure much failure or disappointment in your lifetime. But as B757 First Officer Susie reminds Mr. Parker in the July 8 Crew News: "Life's Not Fair."

 

[electricjet98]

Had USAPA lost the election in April, our income&benefits would be no different. The Nicolau award could only be implemented as part of a new joint contract. ALPA's strategy, you will recall, was "permanent, separate operations", as well as the lawsuit which ALPA filed. Even if both tactics failed, there was still the ratification vote.

I don't engage in prognostications like many in the west, but I am reasonably confident a joint contract with the Nic intact would have been voted down. It would have been an easier vote than the one on April 17th. Even under ALPA, there could be no Nic without a contract ratified by both groups.

Regarding your last prognostication, I am quite willing to wait and see what a judge might decide.

It may surprise you Piedmont, but I actually agree. But make no mistake; this stalemate is costing all of us (and considering LOA 93, the east especially) a bundle. Had Nic made his award a "little more palatable" to the east, we may have avoided this prolonged and expensive stalemate. Soon after the award I was in support of some degree of compromise to resolve the conflict and move forward, united. Eventually, after actions such as the lawsuit brought by the east MEC, the growing "blame ALPA - vote USAPA attitude, withdrawl from JNC and reports from our reps regarding the Blue Ribbon and Wye River meetings, I came to realize that meaningful compromise with the east was not possible. Had we "watered-down" the Nic award in anyway, the east would have continued to obstruct the JNC and vote down any contract proposals with the excuse that the west had still not compromised enough. And having already made some compromise to the Nic, the west would have "seemingly" demonstrated that we also thought the Nic was unfair (which we do not).

And now, after removing my union and replacing it with a extremely biased group demostrated by its "stacked deck" C&BL, whose drive for a DOH seniority list I see as being punitive and retribution for our failure to fold, I have absolutely no taste for compromise. Jumpseat requests from the east will be very unlikely to be approved; I simply no longer trust your motives and actions behind my back.

So where do we go from here? I believe the the "extremest" attitude that was demonstrated by your Merger Committee, admonished by Nic at the time and which resulted in the Nic Award has only grown with USAPA. That attitude, demonstrated by the punitive DOH movement which is even more extreme and damaging to the west pilots than your MC's LOS proposal, an exclusionary C&BL and the heavy-handed actions by USAPA against the west pilots will be seen by the judge as ample evidence that the east is unwilling to compromise in any meaningful manner, and result in the Nic being implemented.

So with that thought in mind, I wish us all a speedy contract and DOH seniority list so that we have an "actionable" event that will allow legal action to proceed.

 

[Elevation]

Short answer: the court opinioned that since RICO did not apply, the proper venue is state court. No ruling whatsoever was made on the merits of the case; this was simply a technical ruling dealing primarily with determining appropriate venue.

By asserting that the Defendants goal is the destruction of the Plaintiff itself,
the Plaintiff fails to meet the continuity requirement of RICO and also fails
to allege adequately an essential element of extortion, namely, that the
Defendants seek to obtain the Plaintiffs property. For these reasons,
the Court concludes that Counts One and Two of the Plaintiffs Amended
Complaint fail to state a claim upon which relief can be granted


basically your case is crap... and your lawyer sucks.

 

[exB717Flyer]

QUOTE (Megasnoop @ Jul 12 2008, 12:22 AM) Hard to put a price on not being harassed, ex717.

Hard to put a price on 1/3 of the USAIRways pilot group being 100% unified and dead-set against you as well. But that doesn't seem to bother you.

So, now you guys could and should start working on your DFR lawsuit war chest.

Thanks for the timely advice. So where do you think the 1.95% of our salary we've been saving has been going?

The TWA DFR is still going on, 7 years after it was filed.

I'm well aware of that. I'm ex-TWA and part of the plaintiff class. If you think the TWA case against ALPA is anything like the AWA case will be against USAPA you've been listening to your ace attorney Seeham too much.

Even with DOH, I'll be yanking gear for a west pilot over the Atlantic by then.

So? Nicolau had reasons for his ruling.

I'm not sure about the irony there, Ex. Only a good old fashioned DFR lawsuit is going to solve this.

I dunno, maybe other events will take over and negate the need for a suit.

 

[nostradamus]

Your campaign shows a lack of wisdom as your posts show an inflated belief of such. You throw the TWA name around like it should be added to your resume. Your are actually a leach on the body of others who fought before you and learned from mistakes.

A little bit of knowledge is a very dangerous thing.

 

[Piedmont1984]

And now, after removing my union and replacing it with a extremely biased group demostrated by its "stacked deck" C&BL, whose drive for a DOH seniority list I see as being punitive and retribution for our failure to fold, I have absolutely no taste for compromise. Jumpseat requests from the east will be very unlikely to be approved; I simply no longer trust your motives and actions behind my back.

So with that thought in mind, I wish us all a speedy contract and DOH seniority list so that we have an "actionable" event that will allow legal action to proceed.

To consider DOH seniority as being punitive, coming from someone in this industry, or any industry, particularly from a member of organized labor - astonishes and reinforces in my mind that you and your group are poster children for the "give me, look at me, I want it now" generation.

You are welcome to ride my jumpseat anytime - son.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Not the least bit frustrated huh. Ok. Sure. I guess after a lifetime of setbacks, paycuts and being kicked in the part that hurts a lot you develop a little better tolerance for disappointment and failure over time. Good on ya!

By the way, when I was in high school I would watch those videos like the one you linked to u-tube. So, when do you plan on growing up?

LOL. "MY bad, Good on ya"? You sound a great deal more like you are the one still in high school and in need of growing up.

 

[Edward]

Everyone lets lay aside the personal comments & be nice to each other. Thank you.

 

[nostradamus]

I'm ex-TWA and part of the plaintiff class. If you think the TWA case against ALPA is anything like the AWA case will be against USAPA you've been listening to your ace attorney Seeham too much.So?

25 years ago young man a TWA pilot was trying to cash a check at a hotel I was staying at. I was a three year commuter pilot at the time. This distinguished gentleman was trying to cash a check at a hotel and was told by a 16 year old desk clerk that his check was no longer good anymore, because they no longer accept TWA checks. The gentleman with impeccable uniform and character and flowing gray hair, did not skip a beat in his reaction. He said I understand, good night. Your cowardice ass is trying to live off this legend.

This pilot flew without gps, without color radar. He was a man. I said to myself at the time, when I am done bowing to this gentleman, I will dedicate my life to right the wrong.

This is why I consider america west pilots to be nothing more than what they sent to USAPA in the envelope, human waste.

(Deleted by moderator. Inflammatory accusations and namecalling not allowed. )

 

[Piedmont1984]

25 years ago young man a TWA pilot was trying to cash a check at a hotel I was staying at. I was a three year commuter pilot at the time. This distinguished gentleman was trying to cash a check at a hotel and was told by a 16 year old desk clerk that his check was no longer good anymore, because they no longer accept TWA checks. The gentleman with impeccable uniform and character and flowing gray hair, did not skip a beat in his reaction. He said I understand, good night.

This pilot flew without gps, without color radar. He was a man. I said to myself at the time, when I am done bowing to this gentleman, I will dedicate my life to right the wrong.

This is why I consider america west pilots to be nothing more than what they sent to USAPA in the envelope, human waste.

(deleted by moderator)

Nostro. I think you need to express your true feelings a little more. Keeping them all pent up inside is bad for your health.