US Pilot Labor Thread 7/27-8/3

[dariencc]

The way I see it, there are 3 different issues here.

#1 is captains authority.
#2 is whether or not a few captains were abusing their authority to "stick it to the man."
#3 is how USAPA handles these affairs.

Regardless of where you stand on #2 and #3, issue #1 is important enough to make allowances for 2 & 3. It's not like these guys were taking fuel OFF the flight plan. That would be a totally different scenario all together. But as long as a decision is made to err on the side of caution, or to be extra conservative, and does not compromise safety, then captains authority must remain intact.

Just my 2 pennies. Carry on.

I never thought I would be saying this. 767Jetz has provided the most cogent contribution to this discussion. The potential negative long term consequences of fooling with #1 are far more significant than any perceived current gain.

I would also add a #4 to the list. Training must be be kept out of the discipline game. That is not their role. The trust between that department and the line is something to be protected, Robert Isom be damned.

 

[sharktooth]

The trust between that department and the line is something to be protected, Robert Isom be damned.

Those in the training department who allowed themselves to be used as political tools need to be canned. Go back to the line. Most of us understand. It is with no malice that I urge them to remove themselves.

I agree about 76, kudos.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Hey, take it easy on poor Isom, he's got a 2.7 million dollar house to make payments on you know.

 

[nostradamus]

And as one who, in the past, routinely arrived at my destination with only 20 minutes of fuel and, at times, no alternates, I really have to laugh at this fuel debacle. Anyone who feels that 100 extra minutes of fuel isn't enough, isn't being "safe" by ordering more fuel over 40% of the time. They're just being fearful of making the tough decision. And the usaps are being even more foolish with the hot air they're blowing about it.

Your world as you know it is different than others.

for poster above small world enviroment, click here

 

[EastUS]

And I didn't directly get a couple hundred pax to wherever they were headed with my gray jet, but there were times when hundreds of troops on the ground maybe didn't get killed because myself and my compadres did our jobs effectively. And we wouldn't have been able to do that if we didn't bring our assets home to the boat every time - sometimes with 20 minutes of gas.

But I digress.

Um.."my gray jet"?...and "there were times when hundreds of troops on the ground maybe didn't get killed because myself and my compadres did our jobs effectively." Ummmm..Why do I smell a mountain of complete and utter BS here? You might be the very first I've ever heard do so...but...I've NEVER heard anyone with actual Wings speak of "getting suited up in our speed suits" when referring to an airline uniform before...much less noting their previous mount as merely a "gray jet"...and one wonders what war you flew in that allowed you to have "hundreds of troops on the ground"..who "maybe didn't get killed because myself"..etc.

As for brilliance in getting back with little fuel...didn't you have any post-strike access to tankers at all? WTF war WAS this?..

You've previously noted that you'd think pilots operating the supposed China run would be "under tremendous pressure every time they strapped one of those babies on" due to simple ETOPS fuel concerns. I find it utterly amazing that any Gold Winged, Naval Aviator and combat veteran could even think in terms of such nonsense equating to "tremendous pressure". I find it equally ridiculous to imagine one ever arrogantly touting "25 years" of no fatalities with airline ops. Such persons as you now describe yourself to be, have lost people they know of, and I'm extremely hard pressed to imagine haughty arrogance regarding what can and does happen with aircraft from any such.

Previously from NLC: "When I was younger, my F/O's often times had more flight hours than I, simply because they were retired military, and I was, well, young. It was never an issue." Apparently; you've been at AWA for a goodly long while now. When did you find time to go to any war? There have not been that many available......and unless my memory's totally shot (always a possibility) 😉 ...I can't seem to recall USS Kittyhawk even being on station during Desert Storm....I think she was involved for a week or so with the sorry tragedy in Somalia if memory serves...

In any case; You flip faster than a pancake on issues of fuel. First; anyone flying to China would be "under tremendous pressure every time they strapped one of those babies on"..but yet for a true and tough aviator; "They're just being fearful of making the tough decision. And the usaps are being even more foolish with the hot air they're blowing about it." I can't help but think such "creative writing", and entirely inconsistent philosophy might well extend into other fields as well.

 

[banshee74]

East US.....as a lurker, I have to step out on this one. As a former gold winged Aviator, NLC has some explaining to do......such as squadron, ship, etc. And I have one more question for NLC.......what exactly does your "NiceLandingCaptain" mean??????

 

[dariencc]

......and unless my memory's totally shot (always a possibility) 😉 ...I can't seem to recall USS Kittyhawk even being on station during Desert Storm....I think she was involved for a week or so with the sorry tragedy in Somalia if memory serves...

OMG, how embarrassing. You are correct, sir. Kitty Hawk was a non participant. Perhaps our erstwhile Naval Aviator, who somehow has failed to master even the most basic performance data concepts, was referring to a video game. There I was, the last hope of "hundreds" of pinned down infantry, side by side with my "compadres" as we blasted the crack Iraqi assault troops and returned to the Kitty Hawk on fumes.

Not intending to slight anyone's national service, but I believe that the only decoration the lad would have earned on the Kitty Hawk during Desert Storm is the always coveted Philadelphia Naval Shipyard Expeditionary Medal.

 

[nostradamus]

Some posters are concerned about having enough fuel.

Click here for a poster concerned about having enough fuel

 

[N924PS]

OMG, how embarrassing. You are correct, sir. Kitty Hawk was a non participant. Perhaps our erstwhile Naval Aviator, who somehow has failed to master even the most basic performance data concepts, was referring to a video game. There I was, the last hope of "hundreds" of pinned down infantry, side by side with my "compadres" as we blasted the crack Iraqi assault troops and returned to the Kitty Hawk on fumes.

Not intending to slight anyone's national service, but I believe that the only decoration the lad would have earned on the Kitty Hawk during Desert Storm is the always coveted Philadelphia Naval Shipyard Expeditionary Medal.

EastUS will shortly be awarded the no less coveted "3000 Post" patch awarded by the the staff of USAviation. Should look good on the black leather jacket just below the Operation Desert Storage I and II patches.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Some posters are concerned about having enough fuel.

Click here for a poster concerned about having enough fuel

You have to understand.

THAT post was made before USAPA decided to come to the defense of international captains exercising their authority on fuel issues. Now that USAPA has taken a side, NLC has to flip-flop just so that he can be opposed to something USAPA stands for.

 

[EastUS]

EastUS will shortly be awarded the no less coveted "3000 Post" patch awarded by the the staff of USAviation. Should look good on the black leather jacket just below the Operation Desert Storage I and II patches.

Brown jacket if you please sir...and, might I hope those "honors" come with a free pair of movie tickets, a dinner out or at least some cheap steak knives?

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

Your world as you know it is different than others.

for poster above small world enviroment, click here

As usual, partial quote, taken out of context. And a meager, at best, attempt at belittlement.

Typical useless drivel from nosty.

Did your ego need a little stroking today? Hmmm?

Your mind, as we know it, is different than others. Creepy.

 

[LSS]

East US.....as a lurker, I have to step out on this one. As a former gold winged Aviator, NLC has some explaining to do......such as squadron, ship, etc. And I have one more question for NLC.......what exactly does your "NiceLandingCaptain" mean??????

NLC... why don't you answer Banshee74's questions????

 

[EastUS]

NLC... why don't you answer Banshee74's questions????

In fairness to NLC/anyone; I can't fault any for not more specifically ID'ing themselves on a public board that's under scrutiny "from above".

 

[banshee74]

In fairness to NLC/anyone; I can't fault any for not more specifically ID'ing themselves on a public board that's under scrutiny "from above".

Then send it in a PM!