US Pilots' Labor Discussion 11/17-11/30..ALL Pilot Labor Issues Discussed HERE

[Richard]

As the other thread was getting a bit long, I thought this would be a good time to switch it over to a fresh thread.

Please remember the rules, and keep it civil.

Thank you.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Dear Tiger,
One thing is for sure, every West grievance has been followed through like East's. There is no disunity when it comes to grievances. Anyone saying there is or that grievances are doomed to failure because USAPA is handling them, is just adding to the fighting. It serves no purpose.

Suds,
I don't know how or why you contrived this point in my post... :blink: I simply wanted to point out that I am unable to do anything other than watch this epic implosion. The east and west are being dismantled. Period.

I also wish you would accept that the $2+ million in dues owed last spring is now down to near $100K, with delinquancies being handled with payment plans. All that chest beating about never paying or never joining was all talk. Yes, I keep track of waht's going on through my friends in USAPA who still have jobs.

Huh? :huh: Again, never brought that up...

That gets me to this continued nastiness. I made a post challenging the "rape and pillage" comments of one of your posters. It was overboard hyperbole, meant only to inflame. His response was he called them like he saw them, but then went on to say we need to be unified by lowering the noise. You can't have it both ways. It's hard to imagine that ever happening with those kind of posts. There is no need to always get the last word in or the last got-ya.

Wrong guy. Never said anything remotely close to this... :blink:

 

[exB717Flyer]

Update: on another message board somebody reported a West chief pilot said to expect a bid in December. We'll see. In the meantime, for my own amusement, I submitted an "Ask the VP" to Bular from the Wings website. I'll report back any response.

 

[cubfan]

Update: on another message board somebody reported a West chief pilot said to expect a bid in December. We'll see. In the meantime, for my own amusement, I submitted an "Ask the VP" to Bular from the Wings website. I'll report back any response.

I was going to do the same,........standby for the spin :angry:

 

[Reed Richards]

Update: on another message board somebody reported a West chief pilot said to expect a bid in December. We'll see. In the meantime, for my own amusement, I submitted an "Ask the VP" to Bular from the Wings website. I'll report back any response.

So all the anger, all the lamenting about no bid ...and now we see nobody had bothered to ask the question first.

RR

 

[BoeingBoy]

I have no idea what the straight scoop is, buty ther whole issue surfaced in this post:

I can tell you where all the next fireworks should be: the closing of the LAS base requires a displacement bid but the company has already said it won't do it.

[Emphasis mine]

Was the whole thing a rumor blown out of control? Maybe. Did the company have second thoughts? Maybe.

Jim

 

[exB717Flyer]

So all the anger, all the lamenting about no bid ...and now we see nobody had bothered to ask the question first.

Considering the source was Hemenway I hardly think we were jumping the gun. Regardless, it would be wonderful if the fuss was all about nothing.

 

[Reed Richards]

Considering the source was Hemenway I hardly think we were jumping the gun. Regardless, it would be wonderful if the fuss was all about nothing.

Your reference to Hemenway is noted. But as we have seen over the last 18 months, he has not always been "correct." We have enough bad things going on to create yet more angst for ourselves. Let's hope a December bid is indeed posted, so you can all exercise your seniority properly.

RR

 

[luvn737s]

ExB717 wrote;

From our CBA, Chapter 24(A)4b: "Pilots may bid and shall be awarded any Position that their seniority will allow." That means there need not be any vacancies. So without a doubt the results would be different. Some captains will choose to be 757 FOs and the like.

All bids in sec 24 require a vacancy. Sec 24(L)1a references displacement bids and the eligible pilots would be those being displaced from LAS. Since LAS has only one type of equipment, the vacancies created in PHX would be identical equipment, thus the displacement bid would be a de facto plug-in of their current LAS positions in PHX. Yes they should go through the formality, but I don't see the results being much different,unless there are other vacancies that are open simply by coincidence.

LAS pilots cannot bump current pilots from their position, since no bidding in Sec 24 has bumping provisions in it, per se. The furlough of 35 west pilots is based on seniority and may result in other vacancies being created, but this is not directly as a result of the LAS base closure, but of a furlough that occured simultaneously with the LAS closure.

At least that's how I see it.

 

[nic4us]

ExB717 wrote;


All bids in sec 24 require a vacancy. Sec 24(L)1a references displacement bids and the eligible pilots would be those being displaced from LAS. Since LAS has only one type of equipment, the vacancies created in PHX would be identical equipment, thus the displacement bid would be a de facto plug-in of their current LAS positions in PHX. Yes they should go through the formality, but I don't see the results being much different,unless there are other vacancies that are open simply by coincidence.

LAS pilots cannot bump current pilots from their position, since no bidding in Sec 24 has bumping provisions in it, per se. The furlough of 35 west pilots is based on seniority and may result in other vacancies being created, but this is not directly as a result of the LAS base closure, but of a furlough that occured simultaneously with the LAS closure.

At least that's how I see it.

Luvn,

I believe there are LAS captains that would not hold captain in PHX if a bid occurs.

 

[exB717Flyer]

Since LAS has only one type of equipment, the vacancies created in PHX would be identical equipment, thus the displacement bid would be a de facto plug-in of their current LAS positions in PHX.

We don't know what the published vacancies would be until we see them. The vacancies I've seen posted in past bids have not always been logical. For example, I and several other junior Bus FOs have a bid award to go to the 737.

Yes they should go through the formality, but I don't see the results being much different,unless there are other vacancies that are open simply by coincidence.

I disagree; the bid will create a lot more training costs and that could make such a token amount of furloughs less palatable.

 

[Captain Underpants]

exB717Flyer,

While ALPA and now USAPA have tried to prevent or reduce announced furloughs the efforts have been weak and ineffective focusing on unpopular EVLA's. It is time to direct USAPA to negotiate to stop all future furloughs.

It is really as simple and fair as dividing the available flight time to keep all pilots working following the lead of airlines such as FedEx and Cathay Pacific. Flex the pay caps lower as needed or accept rolling 2 week unpaid leaves to avoid the furloughs. There would be little or no cost to the company.

There is no reason to throw 4% of our pilots out on the street so the other 96% can fly 90+ hours a month.

Ending the vicious and destructive cycle of furlough and recall and constant retraining of pilots is a win-win solution for all. Contact your union reps and let's not take no for an answer.

underpants

 

[nic4us]

exB717Flyer,

While ALPA and now USAPA have tried to prevent or reduce announced furloughs the efforts have been weak and ineffective focusing on unpopular EVLA's. It is time to direct USAPA to negotiate to stop all future furloughs.

It is really as simple and fair as dividing the available flight time to keep all pilots working following the lead of airlines such as FedEx and Cathay Pacific. Flex the pay caps lower as needed or accept rolling 2 week unpaid leaves to avoid the furloughs. There would be little or no cost to the company.

There is no reason to throw 4% of our pilots out on the street so the other 96% can fly 90+ hours a month.

Ending the vicious and destructive cycle of furlough and recall and constant retraining of pilots is a win-win solution for all. Contact your union reps and let's not take no for an answer.

underpants

Holy cow, check the temperature in the underworld and knit the devil a sweater, Underpants has come up with something with which I can agree.

I would like to add that it should not merely stop the next group of furloughs, but also facilitate the recall of those already furloughed.

 

[exB717Flyer]

Agreed but methinks there's a reason Mr. Cleary hasn't brought up such an idea already.

 

[hp_fa]

What would he have against it? It keeps more $$$ coming in and less drain on the resources. Or are you hinting that he speaks with a forked tongue?