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US Pilots' Labor Discussion 11/17-11/30..ALL Pilot Labor Issues Discussed HERE

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Do you know the staffing per aircraft for the east vs the west?

Pilots per block hour is the measure that gives you an apples to apples comparison and no I don't have that number off hand. Do you?

And back on topic, even the west sme admits that PBS increases productivity. That means a negative impact on jobs.
 
Pilots per block hour is the measure that gives you an apples to apples comparison and no I don't have that number off hand. Do you?

And back on topic, even the west sme admits that PBS increases productivity. That means a negative impact on jobs.

Yes, considering PBS in a complete vacuum without consideration of other contractual obligations does cost jobs. PBS gives the company scheduling efficiencies while maintaining a superior level of honoring seniority for the pilot group, than does line bidding. Those efficiencies in turn should allow for higher pay scales and other benifits such as greater vacation allowances...which creates jobs!
 
Pilots per block hour is the measure that gives you an apples to apples comparison

It'd actually be block hours per pilot since each pilot flies a fair number of block hours and not numerous pilots required to fly each block hour, and no - that isn't really an apples to apples comparison either. There are too many variables between airlines to really have an apples to apples yardstick. Contract (pay cap, vacation allotment, etc), fleet variety (more fleet types generate more training), average age/longevity (more vacation, sick time, etc with more age/longevity), and several other factors play important roles in average block hours per pilot besides monthly bidding system.

FWIW, however, premerger US pilots flew more block hours per month on average than HP pilots.

Jim
 
Pilots per block hour is the measure that gives you an apples to apples comparison and no I don't have that number off hand. Do you?

And back on topic, even the west sme admits that PBS increases productivity. That means a negative impact on jobs.

I do not know the pilots/blk hr number either, but what I do know is that when AWA went from line bidding to PBS the increase in efficiency was stated in a percentage increase. I recall the number as being a 6% increase in efficiency, but could be wrong. The majority of this increase was realized through the parameters in PBS that do not allow a conflict to be built into schedules. So if you have vacation or training, the line built for you will not conflict with that predetermined portion of your schedule and that is where the increase comes from.

So does that mean if the east went to a PBS format they would be 6% overstaffed? All else being equally, then maybe. However, all else does not remain equal. Just the increase in the number of vacation weeks to bring the east up to what the West has would negate most if not all the increase.

Bottom line, we are not going to see a change in the near future, as we are nowhere near a joint contract. However, as I have said before, if the efficiencies of PBS are captured as a return to the pilots, either in dollars or quality of life, we would be stupid not to take advantage of it. We could even use PBS as a tool to help mitigate future furloughs.
 
Just got a recorded message from Cleary, asking me to show up in BOS for info picketing.

Question 1. Where is Mike's domicile?

Question 2. Where is the LAS support?

Question 3. Do I have to wear a hat? cause that is a deal breaker for me.
 
And back on topic, even the west sme admits that PBS increases productivity. That means a negative impact on jobs.
Productivity leads to profitablity (ask any Southwest pilot) and profitablity leads to more higher paying jobs.

Building in systemic unproductivity only condemns you to struggling along with the tides of furloughs and givebacks, each time the high tide mark moves lower.

But USAirways pilots will only do what USAirways pilots have always done, defending the cesspoool to the death, thus there is no expectation that anyone will sieze the opportunity to improve the pay and benefits especially if it means adapting to something different. Like success.

Doesn't building a stronger airline at least let the furloughees know that their sacrifice wasn't for nothing? Instead of accepting recall to a marginal airline that will likely furlough them again, they can come back to a stronger competitor that can offer the stability an unproductive dinosaur of an airline never could.
 
If LCC had a management team that treated their work groups as valued assets of this enterprise... I would agree... but... even you know the reality!
 
Just got a recorded message from Cleary, asking me to show up in BOS for info picketing.

Question 1. Where is Mike's domicile?

Question 2. Where is the LAS support?

Question 3. Do I have to wear a hat? cause that is a deal breaker for me.

Maybe a long walk in circles by themselves will give them time to think about what they did to our Age 58 bypass.
 
Just got a recorded message from Cleary, asking me to show up in BOS for info picketing.

Question 1. Where is Mike's domicile?

Question 2. Where is the LAS support?

Question 3. Do I have to wear a hat? cause that is a deal breaker for me.

I left a message for Capt. Cleary. I stated that I was glad to see him try to gel this group together. The problem that I had was that as long as he insisted on urinating away over 3 million dollars in pointless, fruitless, hopeless litigation against the C18 and the DFR lawsuit and appeal FIRST, I didn't see how he was helping "our" pilot group.

He hasn't returned my call yet.
 
Even though they want hats, my bet is that they would not turn you away if you showed up. The press and public would simply think you are a flight attendant marching in support of the pilots. :up: :lol:

The same press and public that could mistake the pilots for skycaps. Would not be the first time a passenger asked me to assist in checking their bags. Which I do not mind as long as they tip.
 
To be clear, the question is do we sacrifice the possible convenience of some lineholders in order to save a few of our brothers and sisters from having their lives devastated? Answer... ABSOLUTELY!!!

What's more, we're not just talking about furloughs although that should be enough. Less pilots means less lineholders, less captains, less, less, less = bad, bad, bad

Discuss

So you want to be paid like a Southwest pilot but you don't want to be efficient like a Southwest pilot.

Featherbedding has it's price.
 
So you want to be paid like a Southwest pilot but you don't want to be efficient like a Southwest pilot.

Featherbedding has it's price.

If giving to a company made it strong and its pilots highly paid then US Airways would be the strongest airline with the most highly paid pilots. Nobody has given as much as we have.

Back in the early nineties Wolf complained that the average compensation per US Air employee was 20% higher than that of our composite competitor (gross compensation divided by number of employees). What he didn't mention was that the average revenue per US Air employee was double that of our nearest competitor, American (gross revenue divided by number of employees). 20% more compensation, 100% more revenue yet we were still at a disadvantage!

The vast majority of cost variables lie in the operation of the airline, ie; route structure, average stage length, average equipment gage, crew and aircraft utilization (ie no sitting around on duty), asset/financing management, etc.

Southwest pilots make what they do because the company is well managed on a corporate level. For example they don't fly their airplanes 12 hours a day compared to our 8 hours per day because of pilot efficiencies, they do it through marketing efficiencies.

Ever ask a Southwest pilot how many days it takes to make a full month? That's because they get used when they are at work. They don't sit like we do, like our crappy rigs facilitate.

Their planes don't sit around and their pilots don't sit around.

The only way we will ever see wages like they have at Southwest is if we stop enabling corporate malfeasance.

As long as it is accepted that the employees here are the problem this airline will continue to languish in sub mediocrity.

Rant over.
 
If giving to a company made it strong and its pilots highly paid then US Airways would be the strongest airline with the most highly paid pilots. Nobody has given as much as we have.

The vast majority of cost variables lie in the operation of the airline, ie; ...crew and aircraft utilization (ie no sitting around on duty).....

So you want the company to utilize us more efficiently when on duty but not when they schedule us on a monthly basis.
 
Back in the early nineties Wolf complained that the average compensation per US Air employee was 20% higher than that of our composite competitor (gross compensation divided by number of employees). What he didn't mention was that the average revenue per US Air employee was double that of our nearest competitor, American (gross revenue divided by number of employees). 20% more compensation, 100% more revenue yet we were still at a disadvantage!
The living in the past is over.

We do not have a monopoly on the old Eastern routes anymore.

WN is here and we are lucky to be here.

Become more efficient or perish.

There is a reason why they call them the "good old days".

Maybe they were TOO good to last.

To me, the period mentioned signaled the beginning of the end.

Parity plus 1 for a regional?

Maybe Alaska knew better.
 
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