US Pilots Labor Discussion 9/29-10/7

[AWE_SHUCKS]

The odds of the 9th Circuit reversing and remanding with instructions to dismiss the plaintiffs' case are about the same as the odds that the Sun will rise in the western sky tomorrow.

Simply climbing your airplane immediately after sunset will result in the sun rising in a western sky...Alot of people seem to think that a legal defeat for USAPA will result in a contract with Nic. Have you really convinced yourself that east will ratify such a contract? Brainwash yourselves all you like... it is not even an option.

 

[Piedmont1984]

There can be a reversal for reasons that have nothing to do with the facts. Therefore USAPA could win the appeal without it being decided one way or the other regarding any "dirty trick." If that happens it goes back to Judge Wake for re-hearing.

The odds of the 9th Circuit reversing and remanding with instructions to dismiss the plaintiffs' case are about the same as the odds that the Sun will rise in the western sky tomorrow. My point is that a reversal does not have to have anything to do with the facts, just the procedure utilized by Judge Wake.

I would simply say that many facts were never permitted in Judge Wake's courtroom in the first place. Therefore, the verdict in that venue had nothing to do with the facts either.

 

[luvn737s]

Whoaa. Don't buy into the "dirty trick" accusations under any circumstance of the Ninth's rulings. Everyone is availing themselves of legal, legitimate options they are entitled to.

If USAPA had the confidence in it's own leadership to put to a full membership vote whether or not they should pursue multiple appeals, it would take on less of an appearance of vendetta. Instead they consolidate power behind a BPR that operates in closed sessions without video documentation. Choosing to emulate those you villify doesn't enhance your credibility, it undermines it. They choose paths that rightfully earn them a reputation for "dirty tricks".

Removing Cleary and Co. from power would be the beginning of a true east-west reconciliation process.

Begin now.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Just admit that personally it is advantageous to have separate ops until you retire. That is a much more honest position.

Personally, I will admit it. I am way senior to all of you westies no matter where this ends up. So, personally, separate ops helps me not one whit. Combined ops hurts me not one whit.

Sorry to burst your bubble, ace.

 

[hp_fa]

I would simply say that many facts were never permitted in Judge Wake's courtroom in the first place.

That is part of the job of a judge, specifically to make evidenciary rulings as to what the jury may consider. Your points seems to be that the judge erroneously withheld facts from the jury that should have been admissible under the applicable rules of evidence. The question that the Court of Appeals must decide is two-fold. Did the judge commit error in his evidenciary rulings and were those errors material to the verdict and rulings. I think it is possible for that to have happened, but as of right now I don't believe that the Court of Appeals will overturn the verdict. I await reading the Appellees' Brief.

 

[cleardirect]

I would simply say that many facts were never permitted in Judge Wake's courtroom in the first place. Therefore, the verdict in that venue had nothing to do with the facts either.

The "facts" that were not permitted had everything to do with the award but not the DFR trial. This is something that Seham/usapa never understood. Read the appeal again. Half of the piece had to do with the list how it was constructed and what happened after. (post hearing)

Missing the point that the ninth is interested in what happened in the court in PHX not what happened in an arbitration in DC.

So those "facts" that the east keep crowing about mean nothing to this case.

One of the first press releases after the verdict was a complaint about how the trial was time limited. Just how much time did Seham want? Three maybe four weeks? Capital cases don't last that long. Judges are busy people and do not have time to listen ramblings of poor lawyers.

Beside, after eight days the jury had had enough of seham and more days and more "facts" could have caused an even quicker verdict.

 

[Metroyet]

I would simply say that many facts were never permitted in Judge Wake's courtroom in the first place. Therefore, the verdict in that venue had nothing to do with the facts either.

Well, you guys have chosen this path from day 1...and all you ever do about that choice is ####, moan and point fingers that it isn't going your way. "Fairness" always seems to elude you. I don't really mind that your side chose an old school axe-handle street fight instead of just honoring your Word, Obviously, We're glad to oblige. I am disgusted however by the failure of the those that chose this path to Man Up and accept the consequences of their decisions. In other words, if one chooses to open Pandora's Box, one can't continually whine about what is coming out of it...yet that seems to be a principle Eastie obsession.

Is any of this PERCEIVED mis-fortune the fault of the East? Patience is running thin in ALL camps...except for the Zealot Angry FO camp that has barricaded themselves into irreversible positions of power.

 

[nic4us]

Simply climbing your airplane immediately after sunset will result in the sun rising in a western sky...Alot of people seem to think that a legal defeat for USAPA will result in a contract with Nic. Have you really convinced yourself that east will ratify such a contract? Brainwash yourselves all you like... it is not even an option.

Climbing simply prolongs the sunset, the sun does not rise, the horizon sinks from above it, and inevitabley the sun will set.

usapa has already been found liable for a failure of there duties. The question in the future will not be will the east ratify a contract with Nic. When they see the price tag for the east unlawful behavior, usapa will not be able to table a contract, any contract, fast enough to relieve themselves of the enormous cost of ongoing seperate ops. Probably be the West pilots voting against TA's while collecting from usapa.

 

[traderjake]

If two older pilots posed a safety concern for some, flying with a younger pilot was the solution. The effect on safety - neutral to positive. Remember the rationale for extending the age sixty rule to begin with.

The rational for extending the age sixty rule is that it keeps those pilots paying taxes instead of collecting money from the PBGC and other government entities.

It's cash positive for the government.

Increasing the possibility of physical incapacitation and mental degradation is not neutral to positive for safety.

 

[ChuckBewFarley]

I would simply say that many facts were never permitted in Judge Wake's courtroom in the first place. Therefore, the verdict in that venue had nothing to do with the facts either.

Which case are you trying here? The DFR suit or the fairness of the Nicolau?

 

[AWE_SHUCKS]

Climbing simply prolongs the sunset, the sun does not rise, the horizon sinks from above it, and inevitabley the sun will set.

Thats what happens in any sunset or sunrise... its the earths relative movement. If you are watching a sunrise, would you say to your companion that it is not a sunrise because it will eventually set? Are you the guy who asked me during UPT, why a helicopter couldnt hover until its destination arrived under it? <_<

 

[cleardirect]

Which case are you trying here? The DFR suit or the fairness of the Nicolau?

It says judge Wake. That would be the DFR case. The Nicolau was not on trial usapa was. It was proven that usapa was unfair.

 

[VAflyGal]

*looks around* -- nope, nothing new here...

 

[cleardirect]

DOCKET NO. CV-05-4751 JUDGE: NG
CASE NAME: Naugler, et al. v. Airline Pilots Ass’n
CIVIL CONFERENCE
PURPOSE OF CONFERENCE: Telephone Status
APPEARANCES: Plaintiff Michael Haber
Defendant No Appearance
SCHEDULING AND RULINGS:

1. The next conference will be held by telephone on December 4, 2009 at 2:30 p.m., to be
initiated by counsel for the plaintiffs (Chambers: XXX-XXX-XXX). Counsel should have
completed discovery in accordance with the schedule so ordered by the court and should
be prepared to discuss whether a settlement conference would be prudent before further
motion practice occurred.

Sounds to me like the judge does not think this case has much chance. It might be time to cut the loses and waste of time. Either way this case is no where close to going to trial.

Oral arguments are set for Dec 8 in the Addington case. We could have an answer from the ninth before this case sees a court room. If it ever even gets there.

 

[nic4us]

Thats what happens in any sunset or sunrise... its the earths relative movement. If you are watching a sunrise, would you say to your companion that it is not a sunrise because it will eventually set? Are you the guy who asked me during UPT, why a helicopter couldnt hover until its destination arrived under it? <_<

In your example of the sun rising in the West, it was not just the earths relative movement, but your changing position in relation to the earth. So if I were flying a helicopter eastbound, and the sun was about to rise, even if I had not arrived at my destination, I would stop, hover, admire the sunrise, then comment to my companion that usapa needs to recall their President, drop the Cactus 18 suit, and improve availability of furlough benefits before the next round of layoffs!