US Pilots Labor Thread 12/30-1/5

[Richard]

Here is the new pilot's thread for the week. As a reminder personal attacks comments and insults will result in the deletion of the entire post, and suspension of the poster. Keep it civil folks....

Happy New Year


USAviation.com moderating staff

 

[UtterlyUdder]

Here is the new pilot's thread for the week. As a reminder personal attacks comments and insults will result in the deletion of the entire post, and suspension of the poster. Keep it civil folks....

Happy New Year


USAviation.com moderating staff

May I be the first to wish you and the rest of the mods a very Happy New Year with the best of health and happiness.

Cordially yours,

UU

 

[toganoflex]

May I be the first to wish you and the rest of the mods a very Happy New Year with the best of health and happiness.

Cordially yours,

UU

Likewise.

And let me start off with some more definitions:

Binding Arbitration

Dispute resolution proceedings in which the nature of the agreement between the parties obligates them to the arbitrator's decision.

Agreement
n.
An arrangement between parties regarding a course of action; a covenant.

 

[Freighterguynow]

And let me start off with some more definitions:

Don't forget the second part:

 

[nic4us]

sen⋅ior⋅i⋅ty   /sinˈyɔrɪti, -ˈyɒr-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [seen-yawr-i-tee, -yor-]

–noun, plural -ties for 2. 1. the state of being senior; priority of birth; superior age.
2. priority, precedence, or status obtained as the result of a person's length of service, as in a profession, trade, company, or union: First choice of vacation time will be given to employees with seniority.


OOPS! I guess the west forgot to look this one up!
It looks like they should have looked at this before filing all of those lawsuits.
This is all the judge needs.
Case closed.

I had already looked this one up. I can even use it in a sentence.

"The West pilots do not look favorably on USAPA's attempt to steal their seniority."

or better yet.

"The USAirways and America West pilots seniority was combined by agreement in binding arbitration."

You are correct, this is all the judge needs, then we will see this sentence in the papers.

"The judge ruled in favor of the former America West pilots in a DFR lawsuit stemming from the unions attempt to harmfully realign their seniority."

 

[Pilot692]

I had already looked this one up. I can even use it in a sentence.

"The West pilots do not look favorably on USAPA's attempt to steal their seniority."

or better yet.

"The USAirways and America West pilots seniority was combined by agreement in binding arbitration."

You are correct, this is all the judge needs, then we will see this sentence in the papers.

"The judge ruled in favor of the former America West pilots in a DFR lawsuit stemming from the unions attempt to harmfully realign their seniority."

Into the bubble water a wee bit on the early side, I see......

 

[toganoflex]

Don't forget the second part:

And let me read between the lines for you:

East stays on LOA93 until a new agreement is reached and the west continues to get paid more for doing the same work.

 

[kubotapilot]

I really hate to pee in your cheerios kids, but that little abomination you all may have forgotten about, from early 2004 called "MidAtlantic Airways" will soon become a huge factor regarding the entire "Nic Reward" and all pending litigation associated with it.

The little bit of information, and please save or quote this for later reference, regards the validity of the seniority lists submitted to Mr. Nic before he constructed the combined list. A very high up little birdy has told me that there is some very damning evidence recently disclosed during MidAtlantic / ALPA discovery that will rear it's very ugly head soon. I can guarantee it will piss-off everyone, west and east alike...

So, hang in there kids. This information bombshell will come forth well before any of the west DFR pre-trial motions are exchanged.

You can continue to waste bandwidth all you want about "Binding Arbitration", "Integrity" etc... I wholeheartedly agree with the west, that "Binding Arbitration" is binding, but only if the IMPORTANT DATA used by the arbitrator is correct / valid. You will all soon see that "Integrity" definitely did not apply to ALPA during the arbitration hearings.

I had already looked this one up. I can even use it in a sentence.

"The West pilots do not look favorably on USAPA's attempt to steal their seniority."

or better yet.

"The USAirways and America West pilots seniority was combined by agreement in binding arbitration."

You are correct, this is all the judge needs, then we will see this sentence in the papers.

"The judge ruled in favor of the former America West pilots in a DFR lawsuit stemming from the unions attempt to harmfully realign their seniority."

 

[toganoflex]

I really hate to pee in your cheerios kids, but that little abomination you all may have forgotten about, from early 2004 called "MidAtlantic Airways" will soon become a huge factor regarding the entire "Nic Reward" and all pending litigation associated with it.

The little bit of information, and please save or quote this for later reference, regards the validity of the seniority lists submitted to Mr. Nic before he constructed the combined list. A very high up little birdy has told me that there is some very damning evidence recently disclosed during MidAtlantic / ALPA discovery that will rear it's very ugly head soon. I can guarantee it will piss-off everyone, west and east alike...

So, hang in there kids. This information bombshell will come forth well before any of the west DFR pre-trial motions are exchanged.

You can continue to waste bandwidth all you want about "Binding Arbitration", "Integrity" etc... I wholeheartedly agree with the west, that "Binding Arbitration" is binding, but only if the IMPORTANT DATA used by the arbitrator is correct / valid. You will all soon see that "Integrity" definitely did not apply to ALPA during the arbitration hearings.

Guess we'll find out today.

We'll see if it goes a little better this time.


1. As the parties did not meet the obligation to confer in person or by telephone concerning
the issues raised in their letter motions to the court, they are required to do so by
December 19, 200. Any disputes raised in their letter motions which they are unable to
resolve through such a conference shall be listed in a letter filed with the court by the
close of business on December 26, 2008. No further argument is necessary.

 

[Metroyet]

Guess we'll find out today.

We'll see if it goes a little better this time.


1. As the parties did not meet the obligation to confer in person or by telephone concerning
the issues raised in their letter motions to the court, they are required to do so by
December 19, 200. Any disputes raised in their letter motions which they are unable to
resolve through such a conference shall be listed in a letter filed with the court by the
close of business on December 26, 2008. No further argument is necessary.

Who Cares? No alleged "bombshell" information regarding seniority lists has any bearing on USAPAs failure in their DFR. That is what the lawsuits are about. The Nic. award is ancillary to the DFR.

 

[sharktooth]

East stays on LOA93 until a new agreement is reached and the west continues to get paid more for doing the same work.

Pilots "fighting" over road apples. Parker has got to love it.

Are you, kinda, some one hired to drive a schism?

 

[fodase]

I really hate to pee in your cheerios kids, but that little abomination you all may have forgotten about, from early 2004 called "MidAtlantic Airways" will soon become a huge factor regarding the entire "Nic Reward" and all pending litigation associated with it.

The little bit of information, and please save or quote this for later reference, regards the validity of the seniority lists submitted to Mr. Nic before he constructed the combined list. A very high up little birdy has told me that there is some very damning evidence recently disclosed during MidAtlantic / ALPA discovery that will rear it's very ugly head soon. I can guarantee it will piss-off everyone, west and east alike...

So, hang in there kids. This information bombshell will come forth well before any of the west DFR pre-trial motions are exchanged.

You can continue to waste bandwidth all you want about "Binding Arbitration", "Integrity" etc... I wholeheartedly agree with the west, that "Binding Arbitration" is binding, but only if the IMPORTANT DATA used by the arbitrator is correct / valid. You will all soon see that "Integrity" definitely did not apply to ALPA during the arbitration hearings.

Here's some info, I guess you are on ice.
BEFORE: VIKTOR V. POHORELSKY DATE: 12/30/08

U.S. MAGISTRATE JUDGE START TIME: 10:15 a.m.
END TIME: 11:15 a.m.

DOCKET NO. CV-05-4751 JUDGE: NG

CASE NAME: Naughler, et al. v. Airline Pilots Ass’n

CIVIL CONFERENCE

PURPOSE OF CONFERENCE: Discovery, Status and Scheduling

APPEARANCES: Plaintiff Michael Haber
Defendant James Linsey; Eyad Asad

SCHEDULING AND RULINGS:
1. The parties have resolved their disputes concerning discovery, as indicated in the defendant’s December 26, 2008 letter to the court. As a result, their respective motions to compel are withdrawn. The parties have agreed that any as yet unproduced discovery shall be completed by the plaintiffs by January 19, 2009, and that deadline is hereby so
ordered by the court.

2. In accordance with the court’s ruling at the last conference the plaintiffs identified on the record the seniority lists alleged in the complaint to be erroneous or corrected. The plaintiffs will identify the lists in writing for the defendant and will produce batesnumbered copies of the lists that were identified at the conference but which have not yet been bates-numbered.

3. The defendant’s request that further discovery be stayed pending resolution of a proposed motion for summary judgment is denied, but without prejudice to any application for such relief in connection with a request to Judge Gershon for a premotion conference regarding any such motion.

4. The next conference will be held by telephone on March 27, 2009 at 2:00 p.m., to be initiated by counsel for the plaintiffs (Chambers: 718-613-2400).

 

[toganoflex]

Pilots "fighting" over road apples. Parker has got to love it.

Are you, kinda, some one hired to drive a schism?

Drive a shism? No.

Defend truth and justice? Yes.

 

[kubotapilot]

Yes, it appears you failed reading simple language 101...

Where did I say this new information would come to light with yesterday's conference ????

If I am on ice, it's Beefeater please, thank you very much !

any as yet unproduced discovery shall be completed by the plaintiffs by January 19, 2009

What part of this is not clear??

The seniority lists to be identified for the defendant are the little problem that will fall in their lap along with some other major tidbits. Item 3 denies ALPA's request for a stay of discovery...I can't imagine why, but just maybe Mr. Haber related some of the newly discovered material to the judges before the conference yesterday.....

Some of the new material just happens to come directly from an ALPA negotiating committee member on the negotiating committee during the MDA fiasco, hmmmmmmmmm....

Here's some info, I guess you are on ice.
BEFORE: VIKTOR V. POHORELSKY DATE: 12/30/08

U.S. MAGISTRATE JUDGE START TIME: 10:15 a.m.
END TIME: 11:15 a.m.

DOCKET NO. CV-05-4751 JUDGE: NG

CASE NAME: Naughler, et al. v. Airline Pilots Ass’n

CIVIL CONFERENCE

PURPOSE OF CONFERENCE: Discovery, Status and Scheduling

APPEARANCES: Plaintiff Michael Haber
Defendant James Linsey; Eyad Asad

SCHEDULING AND RULINGS:
1. The parties have resolved their disputes concerning discovery, as indicated in the defendant’s December 26, 2008 letter to the court. As a result, their respective motions to compel are withdrawn. The parties have agreed that any as yet unproduced discovery shall be completed by the plaintiffs by January 19, 2009, and that deadline is hereby so
ordered by the court.

2. In accordance with the court’s ruling at the last conference the plaintiffs identified on the record the seniority lists alleged in the complaint to be erroneous or corrected. The plaintiffs will identify the lists in writing for the defendant and will produce batesnumbered copies of the lists that were identified at the conference but which have not yet been bates-numbered.

3. The defendant’s request that further discovery be stayed pending resolution of a proposed motion for summary judgment is denied, but without prejudice to any application for such relief in connection with a request to Judge Gershon for a premotion conference regarding any such motion.

4. The next conference will be held by telephone on March 27, 2009 at 2:00 p.m., to be initiated by counsel for the plaintiffs (Chambers: 718-613-2400).

 

[cleardirect]

I think that either you or your “little birdyâ€￾ misunderstand or are putting way to much importance on this new info.

First unproduced discovery is just that. It has to be passed over by Jan 19. It then has to be looked at and a strategy decided on if and how it use it. The next conference is set for March 2009. A conference is a progress report nothing more. Even if the MDA pilots are holding the gold ticket it means nothing right now. A trial has not been set yet. The DFR will have a trial and be over before the MDA thing sees a court room.

Second the DFR is not about how the list was constructed or anything else. The Nicolau list is not on trial. The way USAPA represented the west is. Again even if some list is pulled from a closet, it is irrelevant to the DFR. It has no meaning.

Lastly. You had better hope that your lawyer did not have a word with the judge prior to the conference. Any extra curricular communication without the other party could be bad for the lawyer. All pertinent information has to be filed with the court so the other side can see it. Check the court filings NOTHING filed.

Keep grasping at straws and paying the bills.