US Pilots Labor Thread 3/11-3/18 OBSERVE THE RULES

[Richard]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

As we move to another new thread for the pilots for the week, I will remind you all to observe the rules of the board and refrain from personal attacks and name calling. You may discuss the issues and comments, but you may NOT harass, insult, attack or otherwise make derogatory remarks about other posters, PERIOD.

Just so you are aware, any post containing a violation of the rules will no longer be edited by the moderators, it will be DELETED IN ITS ENTIRETY, and the poster will be subject to suspension or review.

While most of you have adapted your posting to conform to the rules of the board (thank you), there are still some who choose to flout the rules and try to start trouble. Such posts again will be deleted, and this behavior will NOT be tolerated.

We do appreciate this is a passionate issue for you, but the bitterness and pure vitriol with which some of you have addressed your colleagues is just unbecoming of professionals and basically just unacceptable.

Thank you.

 

[nic4us]

Sure..if you say so Was he held hostage on the flight deck?...or, at what point was there sufficent time for any "lecture" from the flightdeck crew? In any case; Those east people are a vile lot indeed, why, in addition to wantonly disrespecting their elders..it's even been said that they're even denying jumpseats to coworkers..or; was that the west folks?........

EastUS,

I believe I have made my opinion clear on jumpseat denial. But to answere your question, both sides have denied jumpseats, although West denials were made more public because of the RICO suit.

With regards to my father's encounter, although he is of an advanced age, he is still healthy, independant, and somewhat quick witted. He can hold his own and did so in this instance. I do not think he felt any intent of disrespect, but he was surprised that the topic came up under the circumstances.

 

[ClueByFour]

Best to perhaps just try: "I was cleaning it when it went off!!"

Actually, that's an East move, only it goes "I was holstering it, and it went off!"

 

[EastUS]

Actually, that's an East move, only it goes "I was holstering it, and it went off!"
..Saving the world, one clue at a time

Noted as an example of another defense that failed...much like any west "moral salvation" assertions that amount to: "The Nic's not my fault" and thusly; "I'm not self-obsessed and greed-soaked for wanting to have my 11 years magically made "senior" to another person's 21 plus, by seeking to force it's implemenation"

 

[EastUS]

EastUS,

I believe I have made my opinion clear on jumpseat denial. But to answere your question, both sides have denied jumpseats, although West denials were made more public because of the RICO suit.

With regards to my father's encounter, although he is of an advanced age, he is still healthy, independant, and somewhat quick witted. He can hold his own and did so in this instance. I do not think he felt any intent of disrespect, but he was surprised that the topic came up under the circumstances.

We certainly see eye to eye and fully agree on the jumpseat issue. Any/all of you are/will always be welcome on any aircraft I'm responsible for. I'm sorry if your father was put upon in any way. Doing such would be entirely inappropriate to my thinking. Frankly?..I just keep politics of any sort completely out of the picture where guests on the plane are concerned, and expect that of others.

PS: You're very blessed to have your father still with us all and in good health. I hope that's for many more years, and I'm envious of you there.

 

[toganoflex]

PHILADELPHIA DOMICILE UPDATE
March 10, 2009


The DFR suit, or Addington case, to which it is commonly referred, should begin on April 28 in Phoenix. As you have no doubt already heard, it will be a jury trial, and our legal team is working hard to finish their preparation. We are confident that we have the right people in control of the case. Emotions are running high on both sides of the debate. Let the legal process work. We have done nothing wrong. Those who want to use selfishness as a motivating factor will not win in the end.

It is interesting to note how the flow and content of communication is controlled out West. If you were to cut through all the hoopla and rhetoric, nowhere do you see any mention of the fact that no matter who prevails, NOTHING will happen until a majority of members in GOOD standing ratify a new contract, including Section 22.

Lies and hypocrisy. And you guys feed on this crap which is unbelievable!

The only "controlling" of content going on out west is with USAPA and the west rep. Guess the PMI at USAPA doesn't like what Brice has to say. And USAPAWatch is strictly easties so I don't get how the PHL reps can think anyone outside of USAPA is controlling the "flow and content." Sounds more like paranoia.

"We have done nothing wrong." I can visualize them saying this with tears coming out of their eyes. Welp, its obvious that something is amiss. Pretty rare for a DFR to make it to a jury trial. True, the outcome is up in the air, but anyone who has kept up on this can get an idea of where its going to go. And remember, all the jury is going to do is determine if USAPA failed in its duty of FAIR representation. It has and continues to do so to this day.

And please, PHL reps, keep putting out those "NOTHING will happen" statements. I hear Wake enjoys reading that stuff.

 

[N1bugmeupflaps1]

As a new reader here, can somebody explain what this "nic" award is that you all fight about every day?

 

[toganoflex]

As a new reader here, can somebody explain what this "nic" award is that you all fight about every day?

It is an arbitrated seniority list that was put together by George Nicolau, a mutually chosen arbitrator.

The east didn't like what he put together so they decided (incorrectly) that they could circumvent said list by putting a different (and incompetent) union on property.

Come April 28th, they'll be looking back at how much time and pay they've wasted playing their foolish games.

 

[EastUS]

Lies and hypocrisy. And you guys feed on this crap which is unbelievable!

Umm..not to put too fine a point on the standard "Lies and hypocrisy" accusations and other equally standard ravings..but..errr..you presumably DID bother to notice that, while "quoting" me...you placed in an entire posting that I didn't make?..and nothing whatsoever that I did actually write?

As for: "Pretty rare for a DFR to make it to a jury trial"...That seems so, especially when one side so vehemently opposed facing any jury. I suppose that one must now charitably assume that the west's objections to having a jury then came from simple notions of wishing to maintain statistical normality? No matter..just pass me the fresh popcorn.....

 

[cleardirect]

Umm..not to put too fine a point on the standard "Lies and hypocrisy" accusations and other equally standard ravings..but..errr..you presumably DID bother to notice that, while "quoting" me...you placed in an entire posting that I didn't make?..and nothing whatsoever that I did actually write?

As for: "Pretty rare for a DFR to make it to a jury trial"...That seems so, especially when one side so vehemently opposed facing any jury. I suppose that one must now charitably assume that the west's objections to having a jury then came from simple notions of wishing to maintain statistical normality? No matter..just pass me the fresh popcorn.....

The west may have opposed a jury trail. But USAPA certainly opposed and fought very hard to delay, delay, delay the trial. USAPA also fought very hard and spent a lot of money to deny a class certification. That is going to happen on April 28. I guess that you consider the jury a “winâ€￾ for the east.

Do you consider a quick trial and class certification a win or a defeat for USAPA?

 

[EastUS]

Do you consider a quick trial and class certification a win or a defeat for USAPA?

I see no "win" or "loss" for either side thus far. How could there be? Nothing's been at all settled as of yet, either way. This scenario has zero meaning until any actual results occur. None have any way of knowing courtroom outcomes in advance, just for starters, and in any case? = Just call us all when ALL this is finally over, and you've EVER proudly taken the left seat of any east aircraft away from someone with twice your years worked. Until then?,,Which I'd again guess would only possibly happen sometime after Hell first hosts the Winter Games.....Just pass me the popcorn please

I could be wrong, (it wouldn't be the first time in my life) .... but let's have some collective patience and wait and see.

 

[tazz]

Noted as an example of another defense that failed...much like any west "moral salvation" assertions that amount to: "The Nic's not my fault" and thusly; "I'm not self-obsessed and greed-soaked for wanting to have my 11 years magically made "senior" to another person's 21 plus, by seeking to force it's implemenation"

So.... I guess in your world it's ok to put someone who was not working in front of someone who was at the time of the merger. Just as it's ok to make someone who has less time actually serving the company senior to another who has more.

I enjoyed not bantering with the likes of you while I was in training for my unnecessary downgrade but now I am equally happy to irritate you with good old fashioned common sense.

Fact: East and west agreed to the alpa merger policy

Fact: East would not budge from their DOH position even when warned by the arbitrator

Fact: East and west entered arbitration with the knowledge that the end result would be final and binding

Fact: East did not honor its agreement cited above.

Fact: Millions of our dollars were squandered in this process and through lost potential income and benefits due to the east not honoring its agreement

Fact: East starts a new union based on DOH, yet doesn't honor DOH for members of its own seniority list

Fact: Said "union" is now in court arguing for DOH in one courtroom and against it in another

Fact: Our day in court is April 28th

I am certainly looking forward to getting this over with, but who am I kidding? Should the west prevail the east will never let it go. They will figure out another way to manipulate the system in order to satisfy their myopic sense of entitlement. Common sense says that there will never be trust, let alone harmony, among flight crews. So, eastus, considering the undisputable facts above please explain this "moral salvation" you speak of and try at the same time to convince me that you are not self obsessed and greed soaked. Feel free to bring along your own set of facts about the greed and ineptitude of the west. Looking forward to hearing from you. Try not to have another meltdown like you did a few months ago.

 

[EastUS]

So.... I guess in your world it's ok to put someone who was not working in front of someone who was at the time of the merger. Just as it's ok to make someone who has less time actually serving the company senior to another who has more.

Should the west prevail the east will never let it go.

1) I very much disagree with not fully respecting length of service, and, as I've many times stated; I feel that furloughs/etc should be done with what any individual's contributed as the benchmark. I'd be fine with a list based on LOS myself. I've a question though = Since when did anyone out west fret themselves at all over LOS?

2) No argument. I don't honestly envision the two groups working together...period. I could be wrong, as one can't ever foretell the future.

As for any supposed "greed" on my part? Guess again, as nothing in my life would change by way of either Nic or DOH. The situation out west's quite clearly another case entirely, wouldn't you say?...Unlike your people; Im not trying to become falsely "senior" to anyone with twice or more my years worked around "here"..especially since none that fit that description even exist enough said there.

PS Tazz: "I enjoyed not bantering with the likes of you" Sooo...does that mean you didn't actually get those flowers on Valentines Day???

 

[luvthe9]

Fact: East would not budge from their DOH position even when warned by the arbitrator

West would not budge when warned at Wye River.

 

[toganoflex]

West would not budge when warned at Wye River.

Coming from someone who has no idea what Wye River was about.

And, by then, the seniority issue was completed with the Nicolau.

Wye River was a dog and pony show Prater put on for the east and nothing more.