US Pilots Thread for the week 9/14-9/21.

[Pi brat]

I'm not a West Pilot. I don't work for US Air in any capacity. As far as the Parker meetings go, I'd say one of the few rational pilots you have handed Cleary his own ass when he tried to act like a tough guy with Parker. There's a reason that USAPA has no method for it's members to express their opinions in an uncensored forum. They control every iota of information. Lo and Behold, everything is coming up roses....sure.

Before you call me a liar about my work status I'll just say that I have access to all of your companies info and website...just like Seham has to the now sidelined AWAPPA boards. Suffice it to say, I'm informed.

Mind if I ask why you are interested in what is going on over here if you don't work here?

 

[luvthe9]

Mind if I ask why you are interested in what is going on over here if you don't work here?

Wife of a very junior F/O.

 

[EastUS]

Denial is a powerful emotion. It plays strange tricks on the mind.

"It plays strange tricks on the mind." Clearly, as exemplified by your postings that "INTEGRITY MATTERS" :blink:

 

[cleardirect]

I have a question for all of you east pilots.

Why all of the anger?

Reading the posts here and reading the updates on the USAPA web site I read a lot of anger and hatred toward the west. Why?

The east holds the majority. You voted in your own union to serve your own needs and wants.

You hold the majority so you can vote in anything that you want.

You hold all of the negotiating positions so you can ask for anything you want at the table without interference or compromise with the west.

There are no reps from the west to have to come to an agreement with at board meetings.

You are all very confident that you will be able to prevail on the DOH seniority list with management.

Seeham has told you that the two lawsuits are “without meritâ€￾

Seeham told you that you will prevail in the appeal on the RICO charges.

The company is furloughing 10% of the west and only 3% of the east. That leaves east new hires on the property while west pilots that were here before the merger are out.

It appears that everything is going your way. The east pilots are in control. So why so mad, angry and hostile?

 

[ussnark]

one of the few rational pilots you have handed Cleary his own ass

Rational? Based on that?

Because of a chance meeting with the man twenty years ago, anything the "rational" pilot now says is from a biased position, admitting he cannot judge Cleary fairly. Yeah, that's rational.

and that is aside from making himself an obsequious and odious patootie. and that is aside from his lengthly FO "no fly" list. I am certain that brief "video" snippet of his thought process (a process outdoing Tammy Faye for layering mud) would make anyone think he is "rational". /snark

The fact is, what you are trying to pass off as "rational", simply means you agree with him. Without knowing any background or one scintilla of information about him, you pronounce him, rational. Amazing. Perhaps he should run for president.

 

[Piedmont1984]

We're not angry, we're happy. This is the way we act when we're happy.

 

[ussnark]

The company is furloughing 10% of the west and only 3% of the east. That leaves east new hires on the property while west pilots that were here before the merger are out.

The west could have avoided that at Wye River.

and, I don't see any anger. The absurdity of the west positions is evident to the east, for the most part, but, I would suggest your attempts to assign such an emotion to east responses is miscast and shows a real bias, "I made up my mind, don't confuse me with facts". The east has been there, once, already. You know, that "experience" thing. It is hard being patient with the west pilots beating their heads against a wall, repeatedly.

 

[SegmentKing]

East "new hires" ??

hahahahahaha

hahahahahahaha

The 20 or 30 are getting furloughed, along with guys who have returned from furlough, which makes this the 5th or 6th time for them!

do you guys still think a pilot that has flown with USAirways for 16 years, with 2 at MidAtlantic, a WHOLLY OWNED division, should get laid off before a 1 year pilot on the west?

 

[Megasnoop]

I have a question for all of you east pilots. Why all of the anger? Reading the posts here and reading the updates on the USAPA web site I read a lot of anger and hatred toward the west. Why?

A lot of misinformation, direct. And until your honest about whats said, written or done, theres not much point in reasonable debate.

Id say neither side has a monopoly on "anger-talk," direct. But with the turn-downs in jumpseats of our PHX and SAN commuters, Id say youve got the upper hand on acting out your anger.

You hold all of the negotiating positions so you can ask for anything you want at the table without interference or compromise with the west.

Your next statement explains why -

There are no reps from the west to have to come to an agreement with at board meetings.

And why no west Reps? You intimidate the few who have stepped forward. You want input? Then you need Reps. Amazing, over 600 West pilots have already been voted USAPA membership and a small group of westies attack anyone who tries to get involved. As much as wed like you to participate, were not out begging.

You are all very confident that you will be able to prevail on the DOH seniority list with management.

No anger because of that, just some relief that east pilots hired in 1990 won't be below your 2005 hires. How the list turns out will be based on, how did Freund put it? Negotiations.

Seeham has told you that the two lawsuits are “without meritâ€￾

Where he say/write that? Please, start quoting any official documents to back up any ot your statements. One thing our attorney and our union doesnt do is make promises. And opposite you former leadership, they dont launch attacks on fellow pilots.

Seeham told you that you will prevail in the appeal on the RICO charges.

No, he never promised us a win there, either. But feel free to cite a document backing up your statement.

The company is furloughing 10% of the west and only 3% of the east. That leaves east new hires on the property while west pilots that were here before the merger are out.

Not quite so, direct. Maybe for a month or so, but when the furloughs are done with, ALL east new-hires and east pilots hired as far back as 1999/2000 will be furloughed. 10 Vs 3. Thats a bummer, but as long as were seperate operations, the company thinks they have the right. Hey, youve filed a lawsuit on it, maybe youll win. But if you lose, maybe you think about getting some representation and a single contract to keep it from happening again.

It appears that everything is going your way. The east pilots are in control. So why so mad, angry and hostile?

Your words, direct. Not shared by us or found on this board, but typical of the Macalvena strategy of telling the big lie enough, maybe your own cronies believe it and act even more childish. snooper

 

[cleardirect]

A lot of misinformation, direct. And until your honest about whats said, written or done, theres not much point in reasonable debate.

Please point out where I am not "being honest about what's said". Are you saying that there is no one on the east that is angry? That no one on these boards are not hostile toward the west?

Id say neither side has a monopoly on "anger-talk," direct. But with the turn-downs in jumpseats of our PHX and SAN commuters, Id say youve got the upper hand on acting out your anger.

Oh I would call the temper tantrum over the fuel issue, the irrelevant vote of no confidence of management and the malicious RICO charges acting pretty angry.

And why no west Reps? You intimidate the few who have stepped forward. You want input?

Where did I say that I wanted input? I said that you do not have to comprise with us because no one from the west is there.

Where he say/write that? Please, start quoting any official documents to back up any ot your statements. One thing our attorney and our union doesnt do is make promises. And opposite you former leadership, they dont launch attacks on fellow pilots.

USAPA update September 9, 2008


You may have heard by now that on September 4th, six West pilots filed a complaint against US Airways and USAPA in the federal district court in Phoenix, Arizona.  The complaint asserts two claims against the Company, and one claim against USAPA. Following a preliminary review of the Verified Complaint, our law firm has determined that it has no legal merit.

QUOTE Seeham told you that you will prevail in the appeal on the RICO charges.

No, he never promised us a win there, either. But feel free to cite a document backing up your statement.

Item One: On August 6, 2008, USAPA filed the necessary documents to initiate an appeal in its litigation against AWAPPA and its co-defendants.

As we have previously communicated to the pilot group, the defendants filed a Motion to Dismiss the action based on the argument that the federal court did not have jurisdiction over the matter. Significantly, for the purposes of the defendants´ motion, the federal court actually assumed the truth of all factual allegations, including those paragraphs alleging that the defendants had engaged in criminal threats of physical retaliation, sending excrement in the mail, and criminal acts of electronic and telephonic sabotage. Nevertheless, on technical grounds, the federal court found that it did not have jurisdiction over the sole federal cause of action under the civil RICO statute. The court dismissed the state causes of action without prejudice and granted USAPA leave to file these causes of action in state court.

Instead of filing in state court, USAPA has decided to appeal the federal court's decision. The decision to appeal was based both on our determination that the federal court's technical decision was in error and our desire to pursue the remedies available under the RICO statute, including treble damages and attorney's fees. In short, we believe that the defendants should reimburse USAPA for all costs and fees associated with the alleged criminal activity.

If USAPA prevails on the appeal, the case will be remanded to federal court for further proceeding. If USAPA does not prevail, the applicable limitations period will allow sufficient time to re-file the action in the appropriate state court.

Are you saying that USAPA has no reason "No legal merit" to pursue an appeal. The only reason they are continuing to maliciously attack individual pilots is for the fun and vindictiveness of it? It Seeham does not think that he will win than is he just wasting money and running up the bill? People do not file appeals unless they think that they can win. Or does USAPA have a losing strategy in mind?

QUOTE The company is furloughing 10% of the west and only 3% of the east. That leaves east new hires on the property while west pilots that were here before the merger are out.

Not quite so, direct. Maybe for a month or so, but when the furloughs are done with,

When will that be? What month will all of the new hires be off the property? As of Nov. 1 about 95 west pilots will be gone. That is Dave Odell and 75 pilots that were here prior to the merger. On Nov 1 how many new hires will still be employed on the east. New hires guys that are the third list of the transition agreement? For all of the east yelling about seniority I find it amazing that now no one has a problem with this. Yes quite possibly in 6 months those east new hires will be gone. Out of the 125 that have received a furlough letter. Would it be acceptable to the east to furlough more senior people just because they are in a different airplane. Eventually they would get to everyone but the company wanted to go out of order. Any problem with that?

Your words, direct. Not shared by us or found on this board, but typical of the Macalvena strategy of telling the big lie enough, maybe your own cronies believe it and act even more childish. Snooper

Again why the name calling? "childish, big lie" The east pilots are in control. Correct? What is the big lie you speak of? Is the west secretly in charge? You may not feel like the east is in charge but if not you who is?

 

[tazz]

Just took my boat out of the water for the season. Cleaned the barnacles off of the bottom, washed it, fogged the motor. Sad day for me. My daughters caught many fish, dragged in many lobsters, got lots of clams off of that boat. Sad day to put that thing in dry dock. Nothing more important than that. Thoutght I'd share, This crap just aint useful. Melancholy day. Put things in perspective everyone. Kids and wives. Nothing more important.

 

[ableoneable]

Just took my boat out of the water for the season. Cleaned the barnacles off of the bottom, washed it, fogged the motor. Sad day for me. My daughters caught many fish, dragged in many lobsters, got lots of clams off of that boat. Sad day to put that thing in dry dock. Nothing more important than that. Thoutght I'd share, This crap just aint useful. Melancholy day. Put things in perspective everyone. Kids and wives. Nothing more important.

Having a job to support said family is kind of important.

Pilots who were working before the merger have had their jobs stolen by east furloughees. I don't think they share your trite sentiments.

Attempting to elevate yourself above the fray, nice try.

 

[EastUS]

This crap just aint useful. Melancholy day. Put things in perspective everyone. Kids and wives. Nothing more important.

Regardless of how we/any ever lock horns here...you're absolutely right= It's necessary to keep the important things in life in proper perspective. Life's just too short a gift not to.

As for the ongoing issues around here, and irrespective of any/all litigation; I think we'd all be well served by looking for ways to keep people from furlough, if at all possible. I don't much like seeing anyone, whether east or west, tossed out on the street.

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

Having a job to support said family is kind of important.

Pilots who were working before the merger have had their jobs stolen by east furloughees. I don't think they share your trite sentiments.

Attempting to elevate yourself above the fray, nice try.

Your point is? All the new hires are being furloughed and the rest have all been around longer. It is a labor union after all. As a point of fact, they are holding on to the jobs they were recalled to, their jobs as you would put it.

This furlough is because of a weakening economy and high fuel costs, this merger has nothing to do with it and because of the revenue being produced by East network is far better than it could be. Blame it on whoever you need to though, if it makes you sleep better.

If you want decision on layoffs based on subjectivity and merit, get a job in the white collar world or deal with the fact the pilot profession chose trade unionism.

 

[ableoneable]

Four west pilots have received certified letters from USAPA demanding dues payment.

Today the company decided that, for at least two of them, there will be no terminations for failure to pay dues to USAPA.

USAPA will of course appeal this decision, and if they do it will go before....... wait for it, a neutral arbitrator.

We know how USAPA feels about arbitration.