USAIRWAYS Pilots Strike !!!
- Thread starter U 737 PILOT
- Start date
delldude
Veteran
when you guys going to get with it?you,like everyone else have been boxed into a corner and you can't come out of it.i hear your frustrations...yeah...its royal screw time....what do you think every last one of you guys will do...quit??and lose everything?come on....wheres all these jobs that are out there waiting for the same pay you now get? huh?they aren't there...everybody knows its reality.oh sure some will find work...but i'm telling you ,ain't too many jobs for pilots out there man...you won't get enough to walk either...won't shut down the company....too much to lose now...take your 28k from uncle sam and cut the best deal you can with dave....thats the best its going to get....ever....i don't like my situ and you don't like yours...i'm making the best out of what i've been dealt now its your turn...cut the crap and lets get on with life....i'm tired of all this blithering bullcrap.
delldude
Veteran
[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/10/2003 6:35:31 AM mrplanes wrote:
Dell:
What most of the non pilots seem to miss is that few of us will return to flying if this place folds. We have all understood this for a long time. My suggestion is for you and everyone else to have a plan B in place. We do. Because there is a very real possibility, if Dave does not live up to his already negotiated promises, we will never fly airplanes again. And we are prepared for that eventuality.
mr
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i've dealt with the realization of job loss for quite some time,as you have.have had a viable plan b also.but salvoing your career over a reduced pension?it may be as good as its going to get for the rest of your lives....i understand you agreed to reductions...i also understand the frustration... i don't see how the dozen or two of you guys who post here speak for the masses.also in the ready room when judged by your peers,the inclination is to go with the crowd.privately is another story.folding and losing your job is one thing but walking away from something that isn't quite what you had hoped for but still may fill the bill doesn't seem a good choice compared to whats available out there.like i said,see what daves willing to cut you and go from there until then???we got a job to do.
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On 2/10/2003 6:35:31 AM mrplanes wrote:
Dell:
What most of the non pilots seem to miss is that few of us will return to flying if this place folds. We have all understood this for a long time. My suggestion is for you and everyone else to have a plan B in place. We do. Because there is a very real possibility, if Dave does not live up to his already negotiated promises, we will never fly airplanes again. And we are prepared for that eventuality.
mr
----------------
i've dealt with the realization of job loss for quite some time,as you have.have had a viable plan b also.but salvoing your career over a reduced pension?it may be as good as its going to get for the rest of your lives....i understand you agreed to reductions...i also understand the frustration... i don't see how the dozen or two of you guys who post here speak for the masses.also in the ready room when judged by your peers,the inclination is to go with the crowd.privately is another story.folding and losing your job is one thing but walking away from something that isn't quite what you had hoped for but still may fill the bill doesn't seem a good choice compared to whats available out there.like i said,see what daves willing to cut you and go from there until then???we got a job to do.
[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/10/2003 10:00:45 AM DELLDUDE wrote:
[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/10/2003 6:35:31 AM mrplanes wrote:
Dell:
What most of the non pilots seem to miss is that few of us will return to flying if this place folds. We have all understood this for a long time. My suggestion is for you and everyone else to have a plan B in place. We do. Because there is a very real possibility, if Dave does not live up to his already negotiated promises, we will never fly airplanes again. And we are prepared for that eventuality.
mr
----------------
i've dealt with the realization of job loss for quite some time,as you have.have had a viable plan b also.but salvoing your career over a reduced pension?it may be as good as its going to get for the rest of your lives....i understand you agreed to reductions...i also understand the frustration... i don't see how the dozen or two of you guys who post here speak for the masses.also in the ready room when judged by your peers,the inclination is to go with the crowd.privately is another story.folding and losing your job is one thing but walking away from something that isn't quite what you had hoped for but still may fill the bill doesn't seem a good choice compared to whats available out there.like i said,see what daves willing to cut you and go from there until then???we got a job to do.
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[/blockquote]
Dell, I believe Mr. is saying the pilots are willing to shut the place down if they don't get their way and if that means 25,000-30,000 fellow employees go down the tube than so be it. Lets hope wiser heads prevail because your post is right on the money. Savy
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On 2/10/2003 10:00:45 AM DELLDUDE wrote:
[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/10/2003 6:35:31 AM mrplanes wrote:
Dell:
What most of the non pilots seem to miss is that few of us will return to flying if this place folds. We have all understood this for a long time. My suggestion is for you and everyone else to have a plan B in place. We do. Because there is a very real possibility, if Dave does not live up to his already negotiated promises, we will never fly airplanes again. And we are prepared for that eventuality.
mr
----------------
i've dealt with the realization of job loss for quite some time,as you have.have had a viable plan b also.but salvoing your career over a reduced pension?it may be as good as its going to get for the rest of your lives....i understand you agreed to reductions...i also understand the frustration... i don't see how the dozen or two of you guys who post here speak for the masses.also in the ready room when judged by your peers,the inclination is to go with the crowd.privately is another story.folding and losing your job is one thing but walking away from something that isn't quite what you had hoped for but still may fill the bill doesn't seem a good choice compared to whats available out there.like i said,see what daves willing to cut you and go from there until then???we got a job to do.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Dell, I believe Mr. is saying the pilots are willing to shut the place down if they don't get their way and if that means 25,000-30,000 fellow employees go down the tube than so be it. Lets hope wiser heads prevail because your post is right on the money. Savy
PITbull
Veteran
Piney,
No one is a "friend" to labor these days; not even Unions. Union leadership has bought into the Corporate thinking, hell they now have seats on the Board.
No one is a "friend" to labor these days; not even Unions. Union leadership has bought into the Corporate thinking, hell they now have seats on the Board.
Mr Bob-
I respect your sentiments, but I think it's counterproductive for the labor movement to be about capital. I have nothing against capital or being a capitalist, but the point of a labor movement is basically: create a correction to the marketplace so that a semi-skilled worker can provide for themselves and a skilled worker can raise a family without exposure to the risk of the equity market. If it doesn't do something like that, it isn't a 'labor' movement. It might be a good thing., but it isn't a 'labor' advocate.
However, there is NO shortage of ways in which today's organized labor is idiotic. There is no question that union leaders need to accept and embrace change: they don't... at ALL! They protect the power structure and the status quo in, sometimes, the exact opposite of the long-term interests of the members. (power corrupts)
Now, you have a union that makes white collar salaries, so how do they use that power?-- to preserve those super high salaries on the top end, but not promote a healthy and reasonable career path.
I respect your sentiments, but I think it's counterproductive for the labor movement to be about capital. I have nothing against capital or being a capitalist, but the point of a labor movement is basically: create a correction to the marketplace so that a semi-skilled worker can provide for themselves and a skilled worker can raise a family without exposure to the risk of the equity market. If it doesn't do something like that, it isn't a 'labor' movement. It might be a good thing., but it isn't a 'labor' advocate.
However, there is NO shortage of ways in which today's organized labor is idiotic. There is no question that union leaders need to accept and embrace change: they don't... at ALL! They protect the power structure and the status quo in, sometimes, the exact opposite of the long-term interests of the members. (power corrupts)
Now, you have a union that makes white collar salaries, so how do they use that power?-- to preserve those super high salaries on the top end, but not promote a healthy and reasonable career path.
PITbull
Veteran
Row,
Actually, I made a statement and Piney "ran off" with the concept clearly over the cliff. God lov'm.
Power does corrupt, however the members are much stronger than the leadership, and when they exercise their power, the earth shakes, the seas part, and the sun moves. The power of the vote; true democracy.
Row wrote: "the point of a labor movement is basically: create a correction to the marketplace so that a semi-skilled worker can provide for themselves and a skilled worker can raise a family without exposure to the risk of the equity market. If it doesn't do something like that, it isn't a 'labor' movement. It might be a good thing., but it isn't a 'labor' advocate".
Right on point. The rest of your statement is "diluted".
Actually, I made a statement and Piney "ran off" with the concept clearly over the cliff. God lov'm.
Power does corrupt, however the members are much stronger than the leadership, and when they exercise their power, the earth shakes, the seas part, and the sun moves. The power of the vote; true democracy.
Row wrote: "the point of a labor movement is basically: create a correction to the marketplace so that a semi-skilled worker can provide for themselves and a skilled worker can raise a family without exposure to the risk of the equity market. If it doesn't do something like that, it isn't a 'labor' movement. It might be a good thing., but it isn't a 'labor' advocate".
Right on point. The rest of your statement is "diluted".
PITbull
Veteran
Piney wrote:
"PROFIT is the name of the game! that's the only thing that matters in capitalism. If trade unions were magically able to deliver more profits, more companies would have them".
PITbull wrote:
Clearly, you misunderstood my meaning.
Labor does provide more profits. If you have a mangement devises a good marketable plan, labor institues the plan. Similar to the architect with vision on paper builds a bridge, and the contractors that take that blueprint and builds the bridge according to spek. Without good contracters to build to turn the blue print into the concrete mass, then it just remains a blueprint. No builders; no bridge;no product; no profit.
Most Corporations that are "anti labor" view paying employees a livable wage, a drain.
In U instance, the "plan" was soley contingent on labors wage/and benefits through such severe concessions, that most employees will either not survive and be forced to leave, or barely survive. No exaggeration here. In order for U not to liquidate and save senior mangement and middle mangement jobs, and certain "rank and file" jobs the exhange was the sacrifice of the employees personal financial liquidation. That is NOT capitalism or free enterprising. It's bullying in order to bring about profits for a co. and stockholders. You may think companies like these will not go after the consumer, think again. They have already crossed that line with the Marketing Dept brilliant idea to charge passengers for standby for missed flights, and the initial program was for you to lose the ticket and have to rebook and by another. But that concept didn't fly, and quickly was softened to $100 fee.
Keep in mind, that management's job is to provide incentives for their Labor groups to elicit more profits.
U's Mangement will tell you that they have provided that in theory; in reality for many labor groups, it's "crumbs".
"PROFIT is the name of the game! that's the only thing that matters in capitalism. If trade unions were magically able to deliver more profits, more companies would have them".
PITbull wrote:
Clearly, you misunderstood my meaning.
Labor does provide more profits. If you have a mangement devises a good marketable plan, labor institues the plan. Similar to the architect with vision on paper builds a bridge, and the contractors that take that blueprint and builds the bridge according to spek. Without good contracters to build to turn the blue print into the concrete mass, then it just remains a blueprint. No builders; no bridge;no product; no profit.
Most Corporations that are "anti labor" view paying employees a livable wage, a drain.
In U instance, the "plan" was soley contingent on labors wage/and benefits through such severe concessions, that most employees will either not survive and be forced to leave, or barely survive. No exaggeration here. In order for U not to liquidate and save senior mangement and middle mangement jobs, and certain "rank and file" jobs the exhange was the sacrifice of the employees personal financial liquidation. That is NOT capitalism or free enterprising. It's bullying in order to bring about profits for a co. and stockholders. You may think companies like these will not go after the consumer, think again. They have already crossed that line with the Marketing Dept brilliant idea to charge passengers for standby for missed flights, and the initial program was for you to lose the ticket and have to rebook and by another. But that concept didn't fly, and quickly was softened to $100 fee.
Keep in mind, that management's job is to provide incentives for their Labor groups to elicit more profits.
U's Mangement will tell you that they have provided that in theory; in reality for many labor groups, it's "crumbs".
delldude
Veteran
lets see what you do next time your mec votes in daves last greatest offer for YOUR best interest.or do they have the stones this time...i heard about someone gettin jacked in the ready room last time.
best buckle 'yo seat belts!!!!!!
best buckle 'yo seat belts!!!!!!
I think that u 737 pilot is a fraud. I see he has not posted on the thread he started beyond his first post. What a coward.
PITbull
Veteran
[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/10/2003 10:23:41 PM PineyBob wrote:
PIT,
I believe that labor does have a voice through its negotiators over the path a company takes. Afterall, we can all see in bold relief the end result at US when Management creates an atmosphere of distrust with events that took place long before I started flying. Over the years labor and management played a high stakes game of "gotcha" and now we view the end result. Possible liquidation of a great airline!
The fact that US is even still in the air is a tremendous tribute to the workers and Mr. Seigel. There needs to be more of that spirit. Lots and lots more rebuilding and shifting the attitudes of the remaining workforce, CCY and union alike into a true team with a "kick ### and take names" attitude toward Delta and your competitors. You have the tools at your disposal.
1. A top notch experienced customer focused front line staff.
2. Newer Equipment with more on the way!
3. A pretty sharp and savvy businessman at the helm.
Do the mid level types at CCY need to lose the arrogant attitude towards labor and PAX?? YES YES YES and YES again!
Same goes for ALPA and its air of superiority. Yes you fly the planes and we are all very impressed. There! Happy now? Go fly and stop with the condescending attitude towards everyone who isn't a pilot. People respect you because of your skills, try to use that respect to lead instead of the never ending carping about how you're getting the shaft! Relax your sphincter and take it, everyone else did and you folks misplace more money than most of the rest make. Parity - Smarity!
When management & labor can sit down at the table and have a meeting on ways to kick Delta square in the ###, then you will have profits and then you can stick BOTH hands out for your reward at the bargaining table. Getting out of BK is step number 1 in that journey. How far along that journey you travel is not up to me. I do my part I buy tickets. Let's everyone else do theirs.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Piney,
I addressed your thread above on a new post: "ATSB...never a doubt".
I want to buy into your contention to strive to be #1; kick Delta's But, etc. You have more faith in the nobelness of this management than obviously I do. Why would this management sit down with these groups and share the wealth "sort of speak", when we are tied into agreements for 6 more years. Why would they increase their costs, being the true capitalist that they are, just to give there emplyees rewards that are above and beyond what we agreed to in our agreements?
You are looking for "good faith " management team. Labor NEVER put this company in the position it found itself. We are still ranking high in many "on time performance, lost baggage, customer statisfaction...we never changed our work ethic. before concessions or inspite of conessions. The owness is on Mangement to market this airline. We as labor gave them the tools. The jury is still out on them and if they can perform on their end. That's true genious, not gutting employee contracts.
By the way, you ever on my flight...I am going to treat you like KING, for always having faith in the "rank and file" at U.
----------------
On 2/10/2003 10:23:41 PM PineyBob wrote:
PIT,
I believe that labor does have a voice through its negotiators over the path a company takes. Afterall, we can all see in bold relief the end result at US when Management creates an atmosphere of distrust with events that took place long before I started flying. Over the years labor and management played a high stakes game of "gotcha" and now we view the end result. Possible liquidation of a great airline!
The fact that US is even still in the air is a tremendous tribute to the workers and Mr. Seigel. There needs to be more of that spirit. Lots and lots more rebuilding and shifting the attitudes of the remaining workforce, CCY and union alike into a true team with a "kick ### and take names" attitude toward Delta and your competitors. You have the tools at your disposal.
1. A top notch experienced customer focused front line staff.
2. Newer Equipment with more on the way!
3. A pretty sharp and savvy businessman at the helm.
Do the mid level types at CCY need to lose the arrogant attitude towards labor and PAX?? YES YES YES and YES again!
Same goes for ALPA and its air of superiority. Yes you fly the planes and we are all very impressed. There! Happy now? Go fly and stop with the condescending attitude towards everyone who isn't a pilot. People respect you because of your skills, try to use that respect to lead instead of the never ending carping about how you're getting the shaft! Relax your sphincter and take it, everyone else did and you folks misplace more money than most of the rest make. Parity - Smarity!
When management & labor can sit down at the table and have a meeting on ways to kick Delta square in the ###, then you will have profits and then you can stick BOTH hands out for your reward at the bargaining table. Getting out of BK is step number 1 in that journey. How far along that journey you travel is not up to me. I do my part I buy tickets. Let's everyone else do theirs.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Piney,
I addressed your thread above on a new post: "ATSB...never a doubt".
I want to buy into your contention to strive to be #1; kick Delta's But, etc. You have more faith in the nobelness of this management than obviously I do. Why would this management sit down with these groups and share the wealth "sort of speak", when we are tied into agreements for 6 more years. Why would they increase their costs, being the true capitalist that they are, just to give there emplyees rewards that are above and beyond what we agreed to in our agreements?
You are looking for "good faith " management team. Labor NEVER put this company in the position it found itself. We are still ranking high in many "on time performance, lost baggage, customer statisfaction...we never changed our work ethic. before concessions or inspite of conessions. The owness is on Mangement to market this airline. We as labor gave them the tools. The jury is still out on them and if they can perform on their end. That's true genious, not gutting employee contracts.
By the way, you ever on my flight...I am going to treat you like KING, for always having faith in the "rank and file" at U.
And the world goes around and around and around. Take a look at:
http://www.benefitslink.com/mb/forumdispla....php?forumid=22
If it does not work, try:
http://www.benefitslink.com/mb/
down to:
Defined Benefit (Including Cash Balance) Retirement Plans
Take a look at the thread:
Retired employee receiving a monthly pension no longer wants
her pension due to religious beliefs. ( 1 2 )
(Some heavy stuff on that forum)
http://www.benefitslink.com/mb/forumdispla....php?forumid=22
If it does not work, try:
http://www.benefitslink.com/mb/
down to:
Defined Benefit (Including Cash Balance) Retirement Plans
Take a look at the thread:
Retired employee receiving a monthly pension no longer wants
her pension due to religious beliefs. ( 1 2 )
(Some heavy stuff on that forum)
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