Voted IN

[4A Mechanic]

+1

 

[4A Mechanic]

Buck, I couldn't agree more. The TWu has led us into the abyss and its just getting darker. Until we unite and fight for ourselves, we will be stuck in this abyss forever. I intend to fight and rid ourselves of this self serving corporation called the TWu. Go AMFA!

 

[Bob Owens]

No it wasn't fear it was a choice between two different options I and many others liked option B better than option A.

So in other words it was fear because there were more options than what the company laid on the table but you were too afraid to take a stand.

 

[Bob Owens]

so I could get a 6 year contract & apparently it worked, come back in 6 years & try again, basically I compared the term sheet to this last contract & made a choice. ;-)

How do you know it worked? There is nothing stopping the company from coming back for more.

 

[4A Mechanic]

You hit the nail on the head Bob. Thats all this local knows is fear and the sad part about it is that most fall for it. Im ready to take a stand with line guys. These self serving idiots of local 514 dont have a clue. Its time to take a stand while we still can. These sellouts here in Tulsa just dont get it and its sad, very sad!

 

[Bob Owens]

So have I and so will I..

But when people are conditioned for years, even decades, into either not doing something or doing something, they are going to have a harder time adjusting. Especially if they are older and set in their ways. And they will get sent to a class here and there and when they can't perform like seasoned avionics mechanics, well, you know what's gonna happen.........

Maybe if our union long ago encouraged mechanics to "do it all" with no restrictions in past contracts, we could've UPPED our worth way back when.

Especially if they are older, set in their ways, and very, very pissed off.

If they had done the right thing I think the majority would adapt quite quickly, as when guys transfer to a class II city where there is no Avionics. All A&Ps had training in reading schematics and I'm sure most have no problem working on the electrical systems in their cars, applainces etc when home. A lot of the petty shyte the company was going after was in anticiaption of resistance, but their inexperience has led them to believe that they can actually implement a lot of this stuff and get the desired result. Sure you can put in all these rules, and if they really want us to we can follow all of them, but none of them will help them get their airplanes out on time as we are doing our due dillegence following their rules.

 

[Bob Owens]

And we have Avionics guys in the shop that can only change light bulbs and can't read wiring diagrams and can't troubleshoot.
Union job! Out in the real world guys like that get weeded out.

No they wouldnt, I've worked non-union jobs before, they have slugs there as well.

 

[Bob Owens]

Tulsa is on borrowed time. In-house overhaul is on borrowed time. I'm not hating on the Tulsa guys, I was one of them at one time. I left Tulsa for the line 26 years ago but the sad fact of the matter is the airline industry is changing and with the evolution of these MRO's in-house overhaul will some day probably sooner the later be a thing of the past and at some point a little further down the line the line maintenance will probably be contracted out as well. The Class II's will be on the chopping block next go around. They can't get rid of in-house overhaul overnight. It takes time to change the way they've been doing buisness for what 40-50 years. They take a chunk of it now, they may take a another chunk of it in 3 years in exchange for some wage increases and some of those work rules, sick days, etc back but slowly but surely they'll get out of overhaul. One only needs to look at the rest of the industry to see the reality of that happening. Manipulating us into giving up system protection is the tip of the iceberg. The door's propped open now. Yes vote, no vote doesn't matter cause the end result will be the same. The big picture is getting rid of all of us. The younger guys should be thinking about a career change and hopfully we still have a few years left before it all goes away for us older guys to reach retirement age. It'll get to a point if you want to be an aircraft mechanic working on airliners you'll be working for an MRO or contract maintenance provider. I hope I'm wrong!

Gone? No. Reduced? Yes.
With such low labor costs it wouldnt make sense to get rid of Tulsa. Over the last year I've been approached on several occasions from different levels of management on the need to seperate the line from OH. I'm not really in favor of it for philisophical reasons but i feel that the structure we have and the results of this last vote leave us no choice, our affiliation with Tulsa is simply too costly, if we were non-union we could expect to earn $20,000 a year more. Tulsa will continue to use their roll call vote at the table and majority membership to ensure that this never changes. Sam let the line stations know that he felt that the line mechanics had no right to try and share their opinions on the contract with his guys, fine, then get your own contract but if we all have to live under the deal dont dare tell us that we cant do whatever we need to do to get our opinions out ther to all stakeholders. In other words under the current structure being in the TWU costs us around $20,000 a year (Plus $600 in dues) compared to being non-union, thats a hell of a lot to pay for just cause and the right to grieve, especially for 90+% that do their jobs and nevr get into trouble anyway. We need a better deal on the line.

If the line guys do what they need to do seperate contracts may happen, if we dont then AA gets the added bonus of not only keeping critical work in house at low rates but also getting line maintenance at super low rates. When we met with USAIR Management two weeks ago they were bragging about how much their maintenance numbers have improved, despite dragging out contract talks and paying their old workforce such lousy wages. I questioned them as to the age of their fleet, they admitted that the age of the fleet had declined but said that most of the improvement was due to their happy, motivated workforce. they showed vidioes about some sort of suckass program where a guy won a car and all these happy smiling (old) faces at these management -employee meetings.. (The average age is 55, they are even older than us, I guess thats proof of testosterone declining as we get older).

So forget about Tulsa going away, it aint happening and concentrate on letting the company know that 75% of the line said NO and we meant it. We arent out of BK yet and we wont have any problem supporting the pilots effforts should the Judge abrogate. Let Tulsa keep their deal that they approved by 75% but they need to talk to us if they want their operation to compete.

 

[4A Mechanic]

I didnt vote yes on this POS deal, so don't make it sound like all of us voted for it. Some of us actually care about how things have transpired and it sucks for all. Dont forget about the lazy asses that didnt think it was important enough to even vote and the line guys that voted yes. There seems to be plenty of blame to go around on the yes vote, but its not on all the guys in Tulsa. The most blame, i agree. Whats done is done and we can't change that now, unfortunately!

 

[AC Tynker]

So tell me whats not written?

You cant can you. Typical TWU.

Move on and continue to get screwed.

One thing that isn't written is Local Overtime Procedures, but then again they are always negotiated after DOS because they are not in the Contract anyway.

Nice picture of you on your avatar.You still look the same after all these years, you haven't aged a bit. You really should go get a plastectomy though before our insurance changes, you know that piece of Plexiglas put in your lower back so when you're wearing your colon mask you can see where you are going.

 

[Buster CRC]

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=585&articleid=20120812_46_E1_CUTLIN161530

Oh Hewitt forgot to mention during his meetings that there was AMTs that could bump into Tulsa. But now he remembers.

 

[Bob Owens]

I didnt vote yes on this POS deal, so don't make it sound like all of us voted for it. Some of us actually care about how things have transpired and it sucks for all. Dont forget about the lazy asses that didnt think it was important enough to even vote and the line guys that voted yes. There seems to be plenty of blame to go around on the yes vote, but its not on all the guys in Tulsa. The most blame, i agree. Whats done is done and we can't change that now, unfortunately!

Its not a blame game, its about survival. We know where Tulsa stands as a Unit, we know where the line stands as a Unit. No emotion, no anger, just time to part ways.

Yes 26% of Tulsa voted NO, and I would support language that would ensure that all those guys would have the opportunity to come to the line but the overwhelming majority voted to accept the deal. I respect all those in Tulsa who fight for what is right but the numbers aren't even close, we all did all we could to bring them into the fold and stand up for the profession like the pilots have chosen to do, and 26% did, but 74% didn't and that 74% proved to be insurmountable, Tulsa is a lost cause. Without Tulsa we could easily overcome the lilly livered on the line. We simply cant afford to try and sway the majority at Tulsa anymore, we have to try and seperate ourselves from the effect of the roll call vote and a membership that would reject any deal that would give the line more than Tulsa but accept any deal as long as the line gets screwed too. I dont want to fight with Tulsa, whether its Sam or Hewitt or Carlisle, I want nothing to do with them, let them go their way with a deal they feel is good for them and let us go our way and let each group stand on their own merits.

From where we are sitting Tulsa as a unit is willing to accept any concession as long as they can force the line guys to accept it as well. And as a unit Tulsa pretty much controls the negotiations process (through Roll Call) and the ratification process, their control has been the biggest factor in putting us where we are today.

So we had a FSC out of Tulsa, who as a FSC will stay near the top of the industry compared to his peers push through a deal for Aircraft mechanics that would put Line mechanics at AA at least 20% below industry average and 75% of the mechanicsI in Tulsa supported it. . As a group, why would the guys on the line wish to remain affiliated when doing so causes us such harm? Yes we had guys that didnt vote, yes we had guys that voted Yes, but the overwhelming majority of us on the line voted No.

What do you propose the line guys should try and do? Accept this for another six years and hope that Tulsa will change by 2018?

 

[iluvaa]

They will never change Bob I agree with you the line should separate from us

 

[comatose]

One thing that isn't written is Local Overtime Procedures, but then again they are always negotiated after DOS because they are not in the Contract anyway.

Nice picture of you on your avatar.You still look the same after all these years, you haven't aged a bit. You really should go get a plastectomy though before our insurance changes, you know that piece of Plexiglas put in your lower back so when you're wearing your colon mask you can see where you are going.

As I stated before just seeing what I'm missing from the 74% from t town.

Sorry all local agreements are abolished.

Wait till you see what you savior the TWU has in store for into agreeing to
unbelievable horrible language in the OT and field work rules.

Guess what, do you think you'll get to vote on either one of those rules?

So you feel a complete gutting of our contract and complete rewriting of our
existing local agreements were in order?

About my Avatar, the only thing I learned the 74% need to floss more. I know now
why there's always corn in their teeth.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

http://www.tulsaworl...E1_CUTLIN161530

Oh Hewitt forgot to mention during his meetings that there was AMTs that could bump into Tulsa. But now he remembers.

[font="Arial""]By JOHN STANCAVAGE World Business Editor
Published: 8/12/2012 2:34 AM
Last Modified: 8/12/2012 3:17 AM[/font]


[font="Arial""]Read more coverage of American Airlines and view a timeline of the company’s history in Tulsa. [/font]


[font="Arial""]On the surface, the Transport Workers Union's approval of a new contract with American Airlines last week would appear to have saved about 1,400 Tulsa jobs.[/font]

[font="Arial""]But for existing local workers, it's more complicated than that. [/font]

[font="Arial""]American Airlines, which is trying to cut $1.06 billion in labor costs to help it emerge from bankruptcy, originally planned to eliminate 2,100 mechanics at its Tulsa maintenance base. The deal approved by the TWU on Aug. 8 - the second offered by American while it has been under Chapter 11 protection - reduced that amount to 770. [/font]

[font="Arial""]A second TWU group, stock clerks, also approved a pact that lowered cuts in Tulsa from a planned 160 to 90. [/font]

[font="Arial""]Still, there's another event that's quietly looming - the planned closure of American's repair base at Alliance Airport in Fort Worth. Because of union "bump-and-roll" provisions, some of the more than 1,500 TWU mechanics there will have the option to move to Tulsa. [/font]

[font="Arial""]The bump rules are complicated, but seniority is a big factor. So, younger members in Tulsa undoubtedly will be displaced by some Fort Worth workers. [/font]

[font="Arial""]"There's no way to tell at this point how many that would be," said John Hewitt, chairman of maintenance at TWU Local 514, in a telephone interview. "There's a lot of moving parts." [/font]

[font="Arial""]So, the bottom line is that it's possible more than 770 of Tulsa's existing mechanics may lose their jobs. [/font][font="Arial""][/font]

[font="Arial""]hey mr.hewitt did you tell those 770 to vote "yes"[/font][font="Arial""][/font]

[font="Arial""]In purely economic terms, the impact on the city will be lessened slightly by Texans moving here and buying homes, but the situation also means some longtime Tulsans will be put out of work and may lose their houses if they can't find other positions. [/font]

[font="Arial""]American has told the union it wants to close Alliance and redistribute employees and work in the next six to nine months, Hewitt said. [/font]

[font="Arial""]Sam Cirri, president of TWU Local 514, alluded to the situation last Thursday in a letter to members. [/font]

[font="Arial""]"Dealing with this bankruptcy process has put a lot of stress on all of us and our families and, yet, we still have a lot of work and sacrifice ahead of us with layoffs and the movement of people and work," he said. [/font]

[font="Arial""]Cirri said the Local 514 will be notifying Tulsa Area United Way agencies, the state unemployment office, resume firms and other service providers to help members who are laid off. [/font]

[font="Arial""]"We are also in the process of making more medical insurance options available, whether (members) stay with the company or not," the president said. [/font]

[font="Arial""]Mike Neal, president and CEO of the Tulsa Metro Chamber, also said his group is ready to help. [/font]

[font="Arial""]"While aviation and aerospace remain key industry sectors in the region's economic development success," he said, "it is the human capital - our highly skilled work force - which allows these industries to thrive. [/font]

[font="Arial""]"We will intensely focus our resources toward the present and future economic and human well-being of displaced workers and their families." [/font]

[font="Arial""]Another "moving part" in the layoff scenario is that the TWU's latest contract includes an [/font][font="Arial""]early-out provision[/font][font="Arial""]. [/font]

[font="Arial""]"It's not early retirement[/font][font="Arial""], although that's what some people are calling it," Hewitt said. "It's a deal for someone to leave the company early." [/font]

[font="Arial""]so it was just to buy votes? great [/font][font="Arial""][/font]

[font="Arial""]Under the program, a mechanic who is 45 years old with 15 years with the company could be eligible for a $12,500 cash payout, plus $10,000 and 13 weeks' severance pay. [/font]

[font="Arial""]AMR will announce a time period when TWU members can elect to leave, he said. [/font][font="Arial""][/font]

[font="Arial""]no surprise here[/font][font="Arial""][/font]

[font="Arial""]As a result, it's possible some Texas workers could move to Tulsa to take jobs left open by those taking advantage of the exit program. [/font]

[font="Arial""]Along with the closing of Alliance, there's another action that will hit Tulsa before American emerges from bankruptcy. [/font][font="Arial""]The carrier has said there will be layoffs outside of what's been announced for its unions.[/font][font="Arial""] [/font]

[font="Arial""]what you say? more layoffs that the TWU did not know about till after the vote? say it isn't so[/font][font="Arial""][/font]

[font="Arial""]In Tulsa, where there are 7,000 total employees, there could be several hundred more jobs cut beyond the mechanics and clerks. Officials have declined so far to be more specific. [/font]

[font="Arial""]Overall, it means there could be close to 1,000 people locally looking for aerospace-related work next year. [/font]

[font="Arial""]Tulsa recently has enjoyed a boom in the industry, with firms such as Lufthansa Technik adding significant jobs. [/font]

[font="Arial""]The TWU's Hewitt said he has heard about interest in American employees. [/font]

[font="Arial""]"I think the other companies out there in Tulsa realize the experience our workers have," he said. [/font]

[font="Arial""]TWU workers who survive the cuts will be working under a new contract that includes 15 percent wage increases over six years, improved health-care coverage compared with previous offers, market wage readjustment - based on industry compensation - [/font][font="Arial""]after 36 months and the ability to reopen full contract negotiations after four years. [/font][font="Arial""][/font]

[font="Arial""]Really, how did that work out for us with early openers in 2006? 6 years later and another early opener for nothing.[/font][font="Arial""][/font]

[font="Arial""]The contract, however, also permits the company to [/font][font="Arial""]outsource up to 35 percent[/font][font="Arial""] of aircraft maintenance now performed in-house. [/font][font="Arial""]That worries union officials[/font][font="Arial""], who are trying to persuade American to take on more maintenance for other carriers. [/font]

[font="Arial""]now they are worried after the vote? WTF[/font][font="Arial""][/font]

[font="Arial""]"Third-party work, however, isn't currently part of American's plan to exit bankruptcy," [/font][font="Arial""]Hewitt said. "That's a major concern to us because the company also is going to be buying new planes that don't need as much maintenance. [/font][font="Arial""][/font]

[font="Arial""]What a brain storm Mr. Hewitt, what does it say in the contract about that?........cricket.......cricket.....[/font][font="Arial""][/font]

[font="Arial""]Did you tell this to the "yes" voters? or put that in your video? why not Mr. Hewitt?[/font][font="Arial""][/font]

[font="Arial""]"We've done some contract work in the past and we're doing a little bit now. Everybody we do work for seems real happy with it."[/font]

[font="Arial""]Read more from this Tulsa World article at http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=585&articleid=20120812_46_E1_CUTLIN161530[/font]