Voted IN

[TWU informer]

So you were one of the retards holding a yes sign with you ramper savior Cirri!!!!!
You stupid f%#€s could not even put your pop up shade tents up!!! Fn losers!!!

I try, but no matter what, I cannot understand the purpose or benefit of a posting like this.

 

[odie01]

I try, but no matter what, I cannot understand the purpose or benefit of a posting like this.

I agree, I have several friends at the TUL maintenance base that are trying to collect cards for the AMFA drive, and slamming TUL as a whole is not helping with this golden opportunity to get cards. I am pissed and frustrated with TUL, but the fear factor that AA and the bought leadership at 514 has alot to do with vote. Lets just concentrate on getting as many cards as we can to get rid of this corruption...........Get involved, you have nothing to lose because its all gone.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

I ran into Pat Kinnerman (former chairman of maint. in Tulsa) on Friday and he told me I just didn't understand. He wanted to compare airline pay and benefits and when I pointed out that United had better pay and had better benefits, except our medical today is better but will be worse when it changes, he refused to admit it and asked if I had seen the TWU's comparison. I told him I didn't need to because I had seen UA's contract, not the cherry picked, edited version supplied by local 514. Needless to say, "Smiling Pat" was not smiling when he walked away. The truth is that the 26% no votes in Tulsa have been disenfranchised by the local and now we are supposed to "Unite" after being sold out. This is going to be just like 95 and 2003 where the yes voters will see they made a huge mistake. But we never learn do we? By the way, I threw my vote no signs away today. If I am still employed and am physically able, I will make new ones and hold them again for the next contract. I am guessing ten years, unless AA comes back for more in three after UA and Delta go BK. I am a proud 26%er and when it all goes to hell in a handbasket you can bet I will remind the yes voters. Someday maybe you younguns will learn to listen to OldGuys.

 

[AC Tynker]

My complaint with your earlier posting was that you volunteer to allow what you keep attacking Ken for and that is outsource of work.

Ken is not to blame anymore than you are, but you cannot attack one person for outsourcing and then turn around and vote yes for an increase in outsourcing. At least not and maintain any credibility in this discussion. It is that double standard that gets me complaining.



But don't deflect away from the double standard you invoked regarding the outsourcing of work. Sure Ken might have been better served politically to not be involved with an organization that promotes outsourcing of work. But neither should you have voted a massive headcount cut and increased outsourcing because your feared what might happen if you took a stand. The TWU has been using the same tactic for years to exact concessions for AA Management. It just so happened that this time they used the bankruptcy laws. But you casn be assured that everytime we enter into negotiations with the TWU there always has been some form of fear to control the voting outcome. Everytime, not just this time.

I doubt this got you seeing any big picture, because I have not seen that myself after 29 years of TWU supporters claiming that picture exist. The only big picture is that which is true and just, and this farce of a Union and farce of a management team is far from that definition.

We can change Unions and my hope is that this will force a change of management. Just a hope, not a promise. But I know doing the same thing over and over is not going to even provide any hope.

I didn't attack Ken about outsourcing, I asked a point blank question and then was able receive his rehearsed or pre written little paragraphs being called a coward so I asked the question question again. ARSAs bad points has nothing to do directly with outsourcing that I am throwing out there it is the fact that they are lobbying and pumping money into Washington to totally dismantle rules and regs so that anyone can throw an MRO up anywhere in the world and not be held to the same standards we are as far as background checks, drug testing etc.

Some of the things you bring up you are preaching to the choir and some I totally disagree with and yes people fear not being able to find a job when 2000 or whatever the number was to hit the street in Tulsa would be a little different than the numbers hitting the street around the system. You don't have that worry with your seniority so I really don't expect you to understand but there are some that do and there are some with the low time that supposedly wanted to take the chance of hitting the street and more power to them. On one hand you had the looming Term Sheet that if the company imposed big numbers would get kicked to the street and the great job that you guys say you were wanting to fight for would most likely not have been there before the 5 years before recall rights ended so they decided to take a chance with voting it in.

 

[AC Tynker]

Don! Crystal baller!!!
Ken has more integrity in his skinny finger than you have in your fat thumb up your ass!!! He has done nothing but promote our class in every possible way!! Unlike you, you fat unelected, money stealing, wife cheating piece of ####! You on the other hand have sold out the AA mechanics and screwed the entire industry! For imported cigars, top shelf liquor, sexataries, six figure income and unlimited A4 passes!!!!
How do you sleep at night ? Karma will get you and All the International sellout pukes!! I hope I live to see it!!!!
BECAUSE IF I DO, I WILL PISS ON YOUR GRAVE!!!!!

You are kind of resembling someone that was on here pumping out posts like you are but they were toward Bob Friday night. He's no longer a welcome member on the board so you might want to use your head before you hit the post button. You also make us as a whole look like a joke when you use such bad judgment.

 

[odie01]

You are kind of resembling someone that was on here pumping out posts like you are but they were toward Bob Friday night. He's no longer a welcome member on the board so you might want to use your head before you hit the post button. You also make us as a whole look like a joke when you use such bad judgment.

Tynk, I know Don V., FURP is right.

 

[furp]

Where is Galespie from? He should be my first opportunity . That alcohol pickled drunk, tommy Bahamas shirt wearing waste of skin!!!!

 

[Tulsamechanic9]

The man lives a world of complete fantasy and words in letters. While he continues to live untouched by the massive concessions he has mastered over the years, we all sit back and allow it because we listen to the same fear of change that he uses to cause ratifications of the massive concessions.

It is time to leave this Union of unaccountable men that live in a world of fantasy.

Sign you cards, VOTE AMFA, if that doesn't correct this problem, I will be the first to lead us into something different then too.

Just don't sit there and take this crap anymore. Do Something!

There are people doing just that not sitting & doing nothing there doing something although you may not like the something they are doing, for example some sold this last contract & some are promoting & collecting Teamster cards basically their doing the opposite something that your doing but their doing something. ;-)
I agree make a choice & do something.

 

[TWU informer]

I didn't attack Ken about outsourcing, I asked a point blank question and then was able receive his rehearsed or pre written little paragraphs being called a coward so I asked the question question again. ARSAs bad points has nothing to do directly with outsourcing that I am throwing out there it is the fact that they are lobbying and pumping money into Washington to totally dismantle rules and regs so that anyone can throw an MRO up anywhere in the world and not be held to the same standards we are as far as background checks, drug testing etc.

Some of the things you bring up you are preaching to the choir and some I totally disagree with and yes people fear not being able to find a job when 2000 or whatever the number was to hit the street in Tulsa would be a little different than the numbers hitting the street around the system. You don't have that worry with your seniority so I really don't expect you to understand but there are some that do and there are some with the low time that supposedly wanted to take the chance of hitting the street and more power to them. On one hand you had the looming Term Sheet that if the company imposed big numbers would get kicked to the street and the great job that you guys say you were wanting to fight for would most likely not have been there before the 5 years before recall rights ended so they decided to take a chance with voting it in.

I have heard all of the justifications for voting yes.

Just as with the previous fear mongering votes, the most I ever get is to say "I told you so", but by the time that becomes the truth, saying it doesn't change anything but makes matters worse.

When the Tulsa base is down to 2000 heads or less in three years, if you are still here, I will try to refrain from saying that then.

We are not playing the casino slot machines here, some of us are trying to protect what will be left from complete elimination.

That seems to be the difference between the yes and no voters. The yes voters believe they just saved something and the voters have been lied to before and know we saved nothing and still have work to do.

And so we disagree. That doesn't make us enemies. We can still take action to change the direction for next time, but we need to take action now and stop with the fear. We need to begin with change of our Union to a more accountable Constitution, one where a concession will have negative impact on those that sell it as well as those that vote on it.

 

[Bob Owens]

http://www.tulsaworl...E1_CUTLIN161530

Oh Hewitt forgot to mention during his meetings that there was AMTs that could bump into Tulsa. But now he remembers.

Hmm, and I bet he forgot to mention that the 35% only applies to outsourcing, so when new airplanes come on line and RIFS are generated due to less work thats not even a part of the rifs already announced due to outsourcing and we were given zero credit for that.

So in other words lets say when all is said and done they reduced 3000 heads by outsourcing they could still reduce another 3000 due to lack of work due to newer planes.

By voting away system protection they exposed themselves not only to the possibility of base closure which would have been more difficult with System Protection in place but also the possibility they wont have any place to go.

Lets say the company decided a year from now that they wanted to close Tulsa completely, I admit its not likely, but lets say they did. With their new bidding rules they could lock the base guys out of the line and lay off senior workers at Tulsa, who used to have system protection, while retaining Junior workers on the line. So they lay off thousands out of seniority based upon lack of qualifications and the TWU grieves it. Management brings up what was discussed in negotiations, how management expressed that they wanted to reduce churn and put the "right" people in the right positions regardless of seniority and the members accepted the companys proposal without being fully aware of the companys intentions, which they made clear during the talks to the Union. The company would argue thats what they sought the rule changes for and why they wanted to eliminate system protection as well. We agreed to it.

They will never change Bob I agree with you the line should separate from us

I dont feel that the leadership from Tulsa and the 74% that voted YES have left us any other choice.

Sam and Hewitt want to weild their 5000 roll call votes at the table, neither of them are A&Ps then Sam demands that Aircraft mechanics from the line "stay out of my Local". That we do not talk to or let our members talk to our fellow Aircraft Mechanics in Tulsa because he feels they are "his" guys. So we have a FSC President, who by the way will remain among the highest paid FSCs in the industry even with the concessions, who, because of the screwed up electoral system we have where we cant have run off elections, is allowed to take office with a minority of the total votes cast, controlling the future of Aircraft mechanics.

IIRC since Tulsa has T-III contracts they will retain UBP and UBB for its local officers while AFW and all the maintenance locals without T-III will lose it. Is it any wonder why the majority of the board voted to accept this deal? Clearly they are targeting the finances of the maintenance locals outside of Tulsa.

 

[Tulsamechanic9]

Going backwards into another majority rule organization that the AMT's would be a minority in is not the answer.

It is simple math and a basic understanding of how majority rule actually works.

Everything else is just rhetorical campaigning. Do you want to end up like the Title 2 group in the TWU and hoping and praying that you are allowed to have more than your share of voting power in the organization to advance your needs and concerns? Hell NO!

With AMFA, the AMT will be the majority, and American Airlines members will be the majority at the National Level. For once we will have the majority rule and accountability in every aspect of the organization.

We should begin mending the divide between overhaul and the line by giving the Line the Union they have wanted for years. That would be a good start to mending the fences and creating a unified Union. The Teamsters do not have the structure needed to overcome the problem. Going to the Teamsters would be taking two steps backwards to every line AMT that has only just begun to enjoy seperate locals. And even those of us in Tulsa would end up in the Houston Local. NOT GOOD and a downright mistake for sake of change.

First off don't worry about AMT because you are not nor have you ever been an AMT you are a welder secondly the Teamsters have resources that many people like & you have no chance of convincing Teamster supporters to support AMFA your just wasting your time & your money, the Teamster Organizers don't have to waste their money because the Teamsters are footing the bill. ;-)

 

[AC Tynker]

I have heard all of the justifications for voting yes.

Just as with the previous fear mongering votes, the most I ever get is to say "I told you so", but by the time that becomes the truth, saying it doesn't change anything but makes matters worse.

When the Tulsa base is down to 2000 heads or less in three years, if you are still here, I will try to refrain from saying that then.

We are not playing the casino slot machines here, some of us are trying to protect what will be left from complete elimination.

That seems to be the difference between the yes and no voters. The yes voters believe they just saved something and the voters have been lied to before and know we saved nothing and still have work to do.

And so we disagree. That doesn't make us enemies. We can still take action to change the direction for next time, but we need to take action now and stop with the fear.

I am the type person that if it goes the way you say I would meet you face to face and admit to you I was wrong.

 

[odie01]

Where is Galespie from? He should be my first opportunity . That alcohol pickled drunk, tommy Bahamas shirt wearing waste of skin!!!!

In the old days, a last name like Galespie meant that you were a bad ass dago that didn't take sheet from no one. And once again FURP,you need to be a little bit more tactful.....The guy is a disgrace to the Italian heritage, and swallows his Italian sausage with Jimmys hand on the back of his head.

 

[odie01]

First off don't worry about AMT because you are not nor have you ever been an AMT you are a welder secondly the Teamsters have resources that many people like & you have no chance of convincing Teamster supporters to support AMFA your just wasting your time & your money, the Teamster Organizers don't have to waste their money because the Teamsters are footing the bill. ;-)

You have alot to learn, welders are AMT's,and I would love to add that skillset to my resume. Your a punk!

 

[TWU informer]

First off don't worry about AMT because you are not nor have you ever been an AMT you are a welder secondly the Teamsters have resources that many people like & you have no chance of convincing Teamster supporters to support AMFA your just wasting your time & your money, the Teamster Organizers don't have to waste their money because the Teamsters are footing the bill. ;-)

I am wasting nothing, and believe that funding the organizing ourselves, not only makes for a stronger union, but you are not being sold a crock of lies from professional salesmen that you have never even worked around.

You have already been lied to and you even told those same lies to others, but even when proven you have been lied to, you still keep going just like a battered spouse. What kind of Union would you have if it requires lies just to get the cards signed to begin with? What a great way to begin!

Your contempt for the welding skill is what many of your signers fear about AMFA and yet it is coming the mouth of a Teamster supporter.

Are you telling those OSM's, Part Washers, and Machinist in your area how you feel when you ask them sign your Teamster card? Or do you lie and pretend that you have no comtempt for them?