Welcome to My Nightmare-AFA thread 12/8-

[iwantout]

I would like to welcome all of the new additions to the reserve flight attendants ranks in PHL starting in January. By the looks of it, the most junior secondary Line holder in PHL should be around June of 1989 based on the number of secondary lines. Maybe now some of you will put pressure on the union and the company to do something about changing the way things are done around here. Welcome to Hell that myself and so many of me reserve counterparts have been putting up with for the last 8 years. Welcome to making no money, being a slave to your cell phone and to scheduling. A big thank you to the company for taking so much of our flight time out of the base and putting to other bases. A big thank you to Inflight Admin for not offering another voluntary furlough to help offset things. Most of all a big thank you to AFA for selling us reserves down the river. More people on reserve, even less flying for us that have been putting up with for years now and even more competition for the few trips on the ETB. I can hardly wait!!!


Folks once again I want to remind you that labor threads can only be started by moderators. See labor thread rules at top of page. However I'm willing to let this be the new AFA thread & the other one is closed.

 

[2BorNot2B]

By the looks of it, the most junior secondary Line holder in PHL should be around June of 1989 based on the number of secondary lines.

Are you saying that the junior Block/Line holder has 19 years Seniority? A Flight Attendant might be on Reserve for 18+ years??

Good Grief!!

 

[YVINTERN]

Are you saying that the junior Block/Line holder has 19 years Seniority? A Flight Attendant might be on Reserve for 18+ years??

Good Grief!!

That's how much things are messed up at this airline apparently

 

[malikie]

Only way things are going to change is with a new contract which the FA group could vote on. Only problem is your group will not deviate from the "me to clause". So until the pilot group gets its act together and votes in a unified contract do not expect any changes for quite awhile.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Only way things are going to change is with a new contract which the FA group could vote on. Only problem is your group will not deviate from the "me to clause". So until the pilot group gets its act together and votes in a unified contract do not expect any changes for quite awhile.

In the waning ALPA days, it always intrigued me that the AFA hung on to that "me, too" clause. In the last decade of their tenure, ALPA showed no backbone at all that I can recall. The AFA seemed like they were much more of a real union than ALPA. ALPA never saw a concession they didn't like, and AFA consistently got sucked down the same tube with their "me, too" clause.

It always intrigued me that the AFA didn't simply get rid of that nonsense and do their own bargaining. Riding the pilots' coattails might have been an effective strategy in the good old days, but it's time for the AFA to find their own way. I think they will do a much better job on their own.

 

[Furloughd4now]

A big thank you to the company for taking so much of our flight time out of the base and putting to other bases. A big thank you to Inflight Admin for not offering another voluntary furlough to help offset things.

I don't know what base it went to but it isn't LGA. A Very small base, but there are over 20 Rsvs (out of 37) with 0 hours to date. So it didn't come here. Daily, we have, appx 1-2 open trips that goes AIL. For the past 3 weeks there has been nothing but OPR available. Folks here are grabbing whatever is available. The line holders are all able to break guarantee, whereas I have flown a turn in 10 days.

Though there was a voluntary for Jan, it went to '01 seniority in PHL. Wherein LGA only received 4 slots that was very senior. Yes, they should have offered more BUT in ALL bases!

You think it's bad now, if we eliminated Me-Too, then its a free-for-all. For what little trips we have and the only thing holding back a FA is 24/7, you will see FAs with 175 hrs and some with 0 hours. We need a new way of being able to schedule so it is fair for all and offer out pkgs for the residuals. It is not MT that is holding up the negotiations.

Contract? I'd love to see one before the next millenium. :down:

 

[NoMoreKoolAid]

Holy crap! If I were still based in PHL I would be on reserve! I counted to about employee # 36907 or about to be on reserve. That is downright disgusting. Maybe this will evoke change. Guess I won't be transfering back anytime soon.

 

[USPHX]

I don't know what base it went to but it isn't LGA. A Very small base, but there are over 20 Rsvs (out of 37) with 0 hours to date. So it didn't come here. Daily, we have, appx 1-2 open trips that goes AIL.

I just picked up an awesome Philly overnight on my days off, (PHX-SFO-PHL-SFO-PHX) worth 17hrs. PHL-PHL-PHL 4 days with all transcon flying to the west coast are way cool, too. Not to mention the CLT, PHL, PIT turns, etc. worth 10 credit hours or more that is all Phoenix based flying now. There have been ZERO flight attendant furloughs in Phoenix even though we suffered I higher percentage of flight cutbacks in the West than the East.

I'm not saying all your flying is going to PHX but some of it is. WHY? It's not because Doug likes us better. It's because you guys have a "me too" clause in your contract which limits your duty day to the same as pilots. I'm not gloating, I'm trying to make a point.

This is why we Westyz are opposed to the "me too" clause and flabbergasted and frustrated by the East insistance on it in our joint contract negotiations.

If it is any concelation, there is NO opentime here in Phoenix, either, (at least between now and the 17th.) It does, however, pick up substantially from the 18th until the end of the month when even more flying kicks in.

I don't know how all this is possible since the fleets are still seperate. Maybe our abused, underpaid reserves (who make way less than their counterparts in the east) have finally had enough and are quitting in droves.

In unity.

USPHX

 

[flywithus]

Well you think it is bad now. Wait until February when they pull more 190 and Airbus blocks out of PHL and send them to CLT. If the f/a's had their own block separate from the pilots, this would not be an issue. The flights are still operating out of PHL but they are being flown by crews from other bases based on the Pilot bid. Well if we had our own blocks, that time would stay in PHL. You would have more lines, because the equipment could be mixed in pairings. You would also have more lines, because the line minimum could be established at say 80 for all lines creating yet more lines. There would be more stability because the blocks would based on the flights being flown out of the base instead of where the pilot bid puts the flight time. Face it when they pull lines out of a base during a pilot permanent bid, ALL pilots then get to bid on where they are going to be for that bid. When they pull time out for f/a' now based on the pilot bid, we are stuck in that base and have to put up with the lost time until if and when Inflight Admin decides to post transfers.

We need to tell our union to have us break away from the pilots to start affording us a better quality of life. Of course many of the f/a's are going to say we need the "me too clause" but most of the people could not even give you a specific as to what the me too clause is. They just hear that we need it. Go ahead ask one of these people what the me too clause is and see if they can give you an answer. Well our union could negotiate specifics into our agreement to match rigs etc but not keeping up with the pilot pairings. This would create so many more lines in an environment where there will be no growth for the foreseeable future.

Think outside of the box and think of ways to improve our lives. If not you are going to be looking at reserve going back to 20 years plus for years to come.

 

[Furloughd4now]

Not to mention the CLT, PHL, PIT turns, etc. worth 10 credit hours or more that is all Phoenix based flying now. There have been ZERO flight attendant furloughs in Phoenix even though we suffered I higher percentage of flight cutbacks in the West than the East.

If I recall 2 things, You have a voluntary now correct? so some are on leave. Also, it is impossible for a Rsv to P/U those "high-credit" turns (off days or on) because "The Cartel" only shares amongst it's members ... you can't take it, make a phone call, someone will. The only way to get those is if someone calls in sick at last moment and it goes Hot.

This is why we Westyz are opposed to the "me too" clause and flabbergasted and frustrated by the East insistance on it in our joint contract negotiations.

You are right though, we easties most likely lost alot of time due to MT. There are many here who will embrace it. I wouldn't be surprised if it is the majority. However, I do not see anywhere in negotiations where it is "holding things up" and by "our insistance" on it.

If it is any concelation, there is NO opentime here in Phoenix, either, (at least between now and the 17th.) It does however pick up substantially from the 18th until the end of the month when even more flying kicks in.

Well, the real reason is because everyone is on vaca .... If it is any "consolation" to you it does here too. Plus our "open" time is a tad different than yours. You can P/U company open time, right? Not east, only what LH's are willing/needing to drop. Rsvs lines are structured so it is nearly impossible to P/U anything other than a 1-day (in LGA) + you can't PU OOB trips.

Maybe our abused, underpaid reserves (who make way less than their counterparts in the east) have finally had enough and are quitting in droves

Nothing new there ... PHX has always abused the Rsvs, your contract allows it.

Sorry for the long post
I too am United

 

[theFLYonthewall]

The time was being pulled out of the base, that is why the pilots had to rebid for a base. If they were not taking the time out of PHL (for example) there would be no reason for the pilots to bid another base. This company doesn't allow the pilots to dictate where the time goes. I would bet this has to do with the reduction of capacity rather then a transfer of time to another base. If all this time were going to another base, then that base would of been open for flight attendant transfers.

CLT AFA has not put out an eline about the reduction in lines, has PHL since that seems to be the hardest hit?

 

[USstew23]

I just picked up an awesome Philly overnight on my days off, (PHX-SFO-PHL-SFO-PHX) worth 17hrs. PHL-PHL-PHL 4 days with all transcon flying to the west coast are way cool, too. Not to mention the CLT, PHL, PIT turns, etc. worth 10 credit hours or more that is all Phoenix based flying now. There have been ZERO flight attendant furloughs in Phoenix even though we suffered I higher percentage of flight cutbacks in the West than the East.

I'm not saying all your flying is going to PHX but some of it is. WHY? It's not because Doug likes us better. It's because you guys have a "me too" clause in your contract which limits your duty day to the same as pilots. I'm not gloating, I'm trying to make a point.

This is why we Westyz are opposed to the "me too" clause and flabbergasted and frustrated by the East insistance on it in our joint contract negotiations.

Well doing transcon turns might be nice for you, however I hope I NEVER see one of those. Some feel differently and yes I think the "me too" clause is holding things up and a little out-dated, but that is just too much flying for 1 day on domestic. One of the reasons I still enjoy this job besides my co-workers (well most of them) is the ability to get away on the overnights. I'm afraid that I'd be a major @$$ Wipe to everyone around me if I was on a domestic flight for that long.

What USPHX said proves that there are different strokes for different folks around here and there is going to have to be a medium somewhere that all of the fa's can live with. This whole pilot thing has gotten so out of control and yes the pilot's inability to come together on a unified contract is starting to hold up the fa contract slightly at this point and probably more so in the future. I'd hate to give up the me too as well (for selfish reasons) but it's not like we can't try to negotiate some of that stuff into the fa contract.

 

[flywithus]

We need to send a strong message to our AFA leaders, both East and West that we need some changes now. It is obvious that AFA is waiting to see what the pilots due before getting a contract of own. In the past this may have worked but if we want to see any changes in our lives, this mindset has to end. This pilot thing is not going to be settle for LONG time and why should we have to put our lives on hold while they do it. CALL you AFA leaders and demand they start negotiating a contrace without waiting for the pilots to settle theirs. We need some quality to our lives NOW, not in 10 years. If we don't start demanding this , it will never happen. CA and MF don't care about the junior people and if things stay the same, what skin is it off their backs.

 

[Iheartflying]

I'm hoping someone can answer a question for me...
Why is it so difficult for the union to negotiate a better system of reserve/scheduling that benefits everyone?
Delta/Northwest is a bigger airline than we are yet they are able to implement an "A" day system that allows people to have more flexibility in their schedule and a better quality of life.
United is much bigger than us yet they offer a rotating reserve for their FA's based on a percentage system. I believe American does the same and they are also bigger than us.

Why are we stuck in this archaic system that only benefits the top portion of the membership. If these systems work for airlines that are much larger than US, why can't we do something similar?

 

[sharonstoneseat]

Does anyone know why there weren't any Negotiating or Caucus sessions in December? They had them in December of 2007.
Why did the JNT's get the month off this year?