What a no vote means...
- Thread starter Lakeguy67
- Start date
September 17th can be a day that goes into the labor history record. Those who choose to vote no on the US Airways restructuring proposal presented to the members of IAM District 141-M will have gained the attention of both labor and management academics. It will be an example of employees who have some of the best and envied language in a Collective Bargaining Agreement deciding that it is worth sacrificing (never to be reinstated) to demonstrate their anger and frustration at both the company and the union. The bankruptcy judge, for them, is the preferred decision maker whether we retain our work rules and benefits (with modifications until snap backs). US Airways--one of the hated parties-will set the new rules, with no snap backs ever, for the next 6 ½ years. The company is not bluffing. This is the second time the same proposal has been presented; they were not bluffing the first time. The company is clear that they need this agreement-not only for the ATSB loan, but in order that the Debtor in Possession financing becomes available at the next level to enable the company to continue to operate. US Airways again is not bluffing when they again tell us they want to abrogate, nullify, eliminate our Collective Bargaining Agreement. Some of the language that will never be seen again:
There will be no scope language-this presently is what keeps all US Airways aircraft the exclusive work of ALL 141-M members.
There will be no successorship clause.
There will be no Allegheny-Mohawk labor protection.
There will be no seniority-at will employees have no employment protection.
There will be no swaps
There will be no paid moves or bumping rights.
There will be no restricted stock distribution,
There will be no medical coverage for retirees.
There will be no severance-except that which is established by law.
There will be no 85 point plan for retirement.
There will be no seniority accrual on lay-off.
The benefits of the retiree''s, who fought for the language in this CBA, will be at risk by those who they tried to protect.
Emotion needs to be replaced with logic and reason. If you vote no there will not be another day to fight; the company will take that away. The short-term gain will not have any long-term benefits-except unemployment. Think of others who want to keep their benefits and wages (even when reduced, better than unemployment or entry level positions) before you vote.
If you vote NO, the decision makers who everyone is so upset with for putting us in this mess are the very same ones who will be dictating your new wages and work rules. That alone is enough to frighten anyone.
A year ago a group of people who were full of hate, behaving based on principals, believing that they would find paradise, took action against other people. The result was devastation to thousands of people and families. History repeats itself in many forms, many not as obvious and not as quickly.
There will be no scope language-this presently is what keeps all US Airways aircraft the exclusive work of ALL 141-M members.
There will be no successorship clause.
There will be no Allegheny-Mohawk labor protection.
There will be no seniority-at will employees have no employment protection.
There will be no swaps
There will be no paid moves or bumping rights.
There will be no restricted stock distribution,
There will be no medical coverage for retirees.
There will be no severance-except that which is established by law.
There will be no 85 point plan for retirement.
There will be no seniority accrual on lay-off.
The benefits of the retiree''s, who fought for the language in this CBA, will be at risk by those who they tried to protect.
Emotion needs to be replaced with logic and reason. If you vote no there will not be another day to fight; the company will take that away. The short-term gain will not have any long-term benefits-except unemployment. Think of others who want to keep their benefits and wages (even when reduced, better than unemployment or entry level positions) before you vote.
If you vote NO, the decision makers who everyone is so upset with for putting us in this mess are the very same ones who will be dictating your new wages and work rules. That alone is enough to frighten anyone.
A year ago a group of people who were full of hate, behaving based on principals, believing that they would find paradise, took action against other people. The result was devastation to thousands of people and families. History repeats itself in many forms, many not as obvious and not as quickly.
Tug-Slug:
That was an outstanding post. The sad thing is, if any union does not apporve their restructuring agreement, the company will likely obtain much deeper cuts.
In particular, you said, There will be no scope language-this presently is what keeps all US Airways aircraft the exclusive work of ALL 141-M members.
There will be no successorship clause.
There will be no Allegheny-Mohawk labor protection.
There will be no seniority-at will employees have no employment protection.
There will be no swaps
There will be no paid moves or bumping rights.
There will be no restricted stock distribution,
There will be no medical coverage for retirees.
There will be no severance-except that which is established by law.
There will be no 85 point plan for retirement.
There will be no seniority accrual on lay-off.
Wow!
Chip
That was an outstanding post. The sad thing is, if any union does not apporve their restructuring agreement, the company will likely obtain much deeper cuts.
In particular, you said, There will be no scope language-this presently is what keeps all US Airways aircraft the exclusive work of ALL 141-M members.
There will be no successorship clause.
There will be no Allegheny-Mohawk labor protection.
There will be no seniority-at will employees have no employment protection.
There will be no swaps
There will be no paid moves or bumping rights.
There will be no restricted stock distribution,
There will be no medical coverage for retirees.
There will be no severance-except that which is established by law.
There will be no 85 point plan for retirement.
There will be no seniority accrual on lay-off.
Wow!
Chip
I seem to think that those statements are what is going to happen if we vote yes.
Plain explain this statement so I can understand where my thinking is wrong voting to accept, please explain where I am confused so I too can see the light of day.
Plain explain this statement so I can understand where my thinking is wrong voting to accept, please explain where I am confused so I too can see the light of day.
You forgot one on your list:
There will be no need to pay dues to the IAM.
So in other words, giving up all of the above mentioned is worth this extremely high cost to get rid of a union, hence, burning down your house is your answer to solve a little insect problem too. Think about this logic, the same kind that is screaming VOTE NO. It’s not logic, it’s Russian Roulette.
There will be no need to pay dues to the IAM.
So in other words, giving up all of the above mentioned is worth this extremely high cost to get rid of a union, hence, burning down your house is your answer to solve a little insect problem too. Think about this logic, the same kind that is screaming VOTE NO. It’s not logic, it’s Russian Roulette.
I seem to think that those statements are what is going to happen if we vote yes. As for paying dues to the IAM, that will soon be a thing of the past Been paying them dues for the past 18yrs to negotiate...givebacks????? Hopefully the new union on the property will do a bit better.
You guys sound like one-and-the-same. Separated at birth?
You forgot one on your list:
There will be no need to pay dues to the IAM.
You forgot one on your list:
There will be no need to pay dues to the IAM.
TUG:
Don Carty, Leo Mullin and Gordon Bethune also hope you vote NO. That's the best way for them to head off this airline-bankrupcy domino chain off -- they'll be able to ride into the USAir Creditors' Committee wearing white hats and offering to fragment the airline between themselves. (By doing so, they will significantly reduce the risk that USAir will survive and extend its now industry-disruptive lower operating costs across UAL's domestic operation as well). You've heard of heading them off at the pass?? Well, USAir is at the pass and it looks like the IAM is the rest of the industry's best hope for the ambush.
Don Carty, Leo Mullin and Gordon Bethune also hope you vote NO. That's the best way for them to head off this airline-bankrupcy domino chain off -- they'll be able to ride into the USAir Creditors' Committee wearing white hats and offering to fragment the airline between themselves. (By doing so, they will significantly reduce the risk that USAir will survive and extend its now industry-disruptive lower operating costs across UAL's domestic operation as well). You've heard of heading them off at the pass?? Well, USAir is at the pass and it looks like the IAM is the rest of the industry's best hope for the ambush.
TUG:
Why do you think we have outsiders on this board cheering on the NO Voter. They know full well what is at stake. For them a NO Vote means we go away, and a Yes Vote means we not only stick around but become the next SWA. They KNOW this and they are using all the negative emotions this situation creates, as a weapon against you. Negative emotions such as: mistrust, cynicism, fear, anger, self righteous pride. These emotions twist reasoning which plays right into their hands. We go away, so does our threat to them, we stay and prosper and they must do the same, or THEY go away.
Why do you think we have outsiders on this board cheering on the NO Voter. They know full well what is at stake. For them a NO Vote means we go away, and a Yes Vote means we not only stick around but become the next SWA. They KNOW this and they are using all the negative emotions this situation creates, as a weapon against you. Negative emotions such as: mistrust, cynicism, fear, anger, self righteous pride. These emotions twist reasoning which plays right into their hands. We go away, so does our threat to them, we stay and prosper and they must do the same, or THEY go away.
I cant take the credit for writing that article, it was written by Ellen Bruck a coworker of mine.
When the company and the union negotiated the T/A the union made it a point to make sure the company agreed to those terms the union knew had they not agreed no matter what we would have voted sooner or later we would all be out of a job. Negotiations were far from over but when U filed bankruptcy it caught everyone by surprise including the union.
No one likes the situation were in ... myself included. Were being forced to make change's we dont want to make but by voting yes we at least minimize the impact of these changes and preserve our jobs and if the membership so chooses they can oust the IAM and bring in AMFA. You vote no all you'll be doing is voting yourself out of a job.
Think about it!
When the company and the union negotiated the T/A the union made it a point to make sure the company agreed to those terms the union knew had they not agreed no matter what we would have voted sooner or later we would all be out of a job. Negotiations were far from over but when U filed bankruptcy it caught everyone by surprise including the union.
No one likes the situation were in ... myself included. Were being forced to make change's we dont want to make but by voting yes we at least minimize the impact of these changes and preserve our jobs and if the membership so chooses they can oust the IAM and bring in AMFA. You vote no all you'll be doing is voting yourself out of a job.
Think about it!
zonecontroller
Advanced
- Sep 3, 2002
- 176
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Totally, hate the IAM proposal? Me Too!
Are choices are limited. I feel if turned down (NO) we will in fact be hit worse.
An old man once told me it is always better to look for a job when you have one.
I don’t believe there are many aviation job openings out there currently paying equal pay & Benefits.
I not to long ago read on this site someone saying they could make more money reading meters.
If that’s what you would like to do than do it! I’m sure they will get sick of your complaining at the water, electric or gas company that pays 60K/ year to read meters.
I’m voting YES!
Are choices are limited. I feel if turned down (NO) we will in fact be hit worse.
An old man once told me it is always better to look for a job when you have one.
I don’t believe there are many aviation job openings out there currently paying equal pay & Benefits.
I not to long ago read on this site someone saying they could make more money reading meters.
If that’s what you would like to do than do it! I’m sure they will get sick of your complaining at the water, electric or gas company that pays 60K/ year to read meters.
I’m voting YES!
Cavalier;
U become another SWA? I dounbt it, SWA pays well. When it comes to prospering I would rather be a participant than an observer. Sure U may prosper if you all agree to work for coolie wages but you wont. You can watch them post record profits as your bills go unpaid.
U become another SWA? I dounbt it, SWA pays well. When it comes to prospering I would rather be a participant than an observer. Sure U may prosper if you all agree to work for coolie wages but you wont. You can watch them post record profits as your bills go unpaid.
Tug Slug;
According to AW&ST it was the reluctance of vendors to change their contracts that pushed U into bankruptcy.
The fact that the company was not up front with the union, filing despite being in the middle of talks, should concern you. If this is how they do business, how can you trust them?
According to AW&ST it was the reluctance of vendors to change their contracts that pushed U into bankruptcy.
The fact that the company was not up front with the union, filing despite being in the middle of talks, should concern you. If this is how they do business, how can you trust them?
One thing you have to understand Bob, he doesnt have a life. If he did why would he find it necessary to come to a bulletin board and read much less post about an airline that doesnt concern him?
When reading one of his many post's do yourself a favor... consider the source.
When reading one of his many post's do yourself a favor... consider the source.
